Natural disaster or Man-made disaster?

[-live-wire-]

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
> how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because
it
> has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The
> reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are
> confronting a natural disaster.
>
> If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
> obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation
to
> evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the
> flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural
> disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people
> pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors,
> nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.
>
> Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to
do
> is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
> suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not
> expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but
about
> rape, murder, and looting.
>
> But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
>
> The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
> federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
> Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel
has
> gotten the story wrong.
>
> The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen
> over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane
> Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
>
> The man-made disaster is the welfare state.



There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
> deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from
two
> groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
> decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The
> welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration
> of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
>
> All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the
> city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city,
> despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city
corrupted
> by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of
> handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not
to
> ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.
>
> No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact,
some
> are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example,
for
> failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an
> adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the
> Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on
> American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the
> chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of
individualism.
> What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the
> welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
> behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
> responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a
> disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome
the
> difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
> government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a
disaster
> as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
>
> But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
saving
> their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do
> they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they
are
> going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
> they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a
way
> of life for them. The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized
mentality
> it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the
moral
> ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one
is
> reporting.

[-live-wire-]

forgot to credit the author:
> An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
> Welfare State by Robert Tracinski
>
> Sep 02, 2005 by Robert Tracinski

[Trojan]

I'm more disturbed by Natural Disasters than by Man made. To hell with those that dislike us but when God is upset it scares me.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Trojan
I'm more disturbed by Natural Disasters than by Man made. To hell with those that dislike us but when God is upset it scares me.

(If you werent kidding ...)
I dont think it was god, the USA citizens have done nothing.

[Dr. Bullet]

We didn't make Katrina Tec. And we have raised a ton of money for the victims.

I think part of this is man-made, but not the federal government's fault. The people of the area were given a mandatory evac order. If those people were that worried, then they should have used their big mouths they've discovered with the media and ordered their mayor to enact the evac plans that were in place.

The federal government isn't a superhero. It cannot move tons of supplies and personnel to a flooded area instantaneously. Also, the flooded conditions make it almost impossible for any real watercraft to get to the area. It's too shallow for anything bigger than a john boat, so that means small RHIB's, which carry around 8 people. Otherwise, it's swamp boats, and the government doesn't keep a flotilla of these things.

[Trojan]

Mississippi Coast looks like a damn bomb blew it off the map. New Orleans is flooded because of the Governments lack of Engineering. Simple as that.

[Dr. Bullet]

With or without the levees functioning, I think the citizens of Nawlins would have still been proverbially screwed.

Plus, some report I saw on CNN said that with the force of Katrina, even had the levees been in their proper state, they still would have busted.

[Mauser 98K]

and ya wana hear some crap? some of the i hate bush numbnuts have said and are quoted on tape of saying that bush sent in the troops to blow the leveys so that new orlens would flood.
and as for the trash that is looting, some of the freak demon-rats have said that why are u people attacking these people for what they are doing, most of them have never had anything and they are merly seizing the moment that was put in front of them to have something that they can be proud of.

isnt that a bunch of BS, the reason that most of them have never had anything is because they are sitting on their asses doing nothing and getting the handout from the government, and the reason that they are looting is because they see something that they want and will probably hock later on to get more money to buy their crack and kill off the rest of their brain cells.
i mean where in a natural desaster do u need a new 30inch projection tv, its just plain stupidity.
as for the ones just hunting food and clothing i havnt really got a prob with them hiting the super market,for they will have to replace all the food and cloths on the shelf anyway b4 they reopen.
but for the others causing all the problems, like shooting at the rescurers, i say give me a good 700m LOS and ill take care of some of the scum of the earth.
but these dumasses are the same wherever u go like in california, when they had that big quake that knockedout power for half the city, the stupid fugers burnt down their own house and wondered why they was homeless and tried to blame every1 else for them losing their house

[BADDOG]

I think this was just a natural disaster and I can't see why God or any other supernatural power could be angry with the U.S.A. anymore than he could be angry with every other country on Earth. I just hope that the good people over there can get help with rebuilding their lives.

Warm Regards

[atholon]

Originally posted by Tecoma2
(If you werent kidding ...)
I dont think it was god, the USA citizens have done nothing.

Except New Orleans has one of the most disgusiting and evil festivals in the world.

[SilentTrigger]

Mother earth is powerfull and if we keep upsetting her, it will only become worse

[atholon]

Like I said in another forum lets stop blaming people and do what we can to help.

This was an "Act of God" as all natural disasters are.

[Dr. Bullet]

Originally posted by SilentTrigger*MFA*
Mother earth is powerfull and if we keep upsetting her, it will only become worse

"Dammit Mom, you're getting on my nerves! Go take a sedative."

[-live-wire-]

The article doesn't really point a finger at anyone in particular..It reflects the "attitude" of the welfare state that has faced a Natural disaster. The "attitude" that "we" Americans created by voting in our Democratic way of thinking. The notion that you can make 20$ less by staying at home and having children rather than working, is a system I have never believed in..It reminds me of a quote from a fisherman that I highly respect:
"Tell me, why is it that people who want help do better without it - at least, no worse. Actually, that's what it is, no worse. They take all the help they can get, and are just the same as they always have been."
I have heart-felt sypathy and respect for my fellow man that tries to improve his situation by puting his hands/mind to work...I have none for the one standing with his hands out, palm-side up.
God Bless the victims of Katrina. God Forgive us for creating the welfare state.
<:{{{}}}><

[BADDOG]

Originally posted by -live-wire-
The article doesn't really point a finger at anyone in particular..It reflects the "attitude" of the welfare state that has faced a Natural disaster. The "attitude" that "we" Americans created by voting in our Democratic way of thinking. The notion that you can make 20$ less by staying at home and having children rather than working, is a system I have never believed in..It reminds me of a quote from a fisherman that I highly respect:
"Tell me, why is it that people who want help do better without it - at least, no worse. Actually, that's what it is, no worse. They take all the help they can get, and are just the same as they always have been."
I have heart-felt sypathy and respect for my fellow man that tries to improve his situation by puting his hands/mind to work...I have none for the one standing with his hands out, palm-side up.
God Bless the victims of Katrina. God Forgive us for creating the welfare state.


<:{{{}}}><

God blessing the victims of this disaster will not help them but a welfare state will, without "handouts" some of those people who cannot work because of illness or some greedy company sending their jobs overseas, ( to name but two reasons), to get bigger profits will starve.

How would that look to the rest of the world? Starving people in the land of the "free?" I have been a champion and supporter of the great nation that is America but if you remove the welfare system from your country then you will deserve the anarchy that follows and richly so.

There will never be "full employment" any where in the world and the risks that follow from leaving people without the means of support will result in the rise of extreme politics as we have seen only to clearly in the worlds history.

A civilised nation looks after it's poor and needy not decries them and invoke the supreme arbitor of their suffering to "come and save them" it is the duty of those who have much to help those who have little and for those who say socialism is some kind of evil remember how capitalism has led to the huge inequalities in every country in the world and those who have become very rich and their unwillingness to pay a few pence or cents in taxes extra to help out those in need.

Their are 6 billion plus people on this planet and most of them live in abject poverty sooner or later their anger at the inequalities will explode and all the vast wealth and power of the United States and it'a allies including my country will not be able to stop that sea of humanity from seeking a very bloody revenge on those who have exploited and abused them to drive bigger cars, have more than we could ever need, and all the time ignore the suffering of the many.

To quote "god" the supreme being who should tried and found guilty for allowing this terrible suffering to continue shows a cowardice that disgusts me to the heart of my half American heart and I can do nothing but distance myself from people who would hide behind "god" for thier own selfish reasons.

I cannot put my regards here and to say that "people who want help can do better with out it" is arrant nonsense and people who believe such things are as guilty as their "god" for standing by and carping instead of helping their fellow man.

[atholon]

Hahaha, this isn't a debate about if god exists.

People need to learn that we don't have control of everything nor do we know everything. This kind of thing HAPPENS. It is part of life.

God wouldn't be god if he didn't give us agency to choose, NTM who knows if he has prevented some horrible event from happening and you just don't know about it. Also sorrows in life often end up teaching us a lesson.

Still think we should stop focusing on who's fault it is.

[-live-wire-]

glad you feel that way friend. ...wish you were here helping to pay the social security you'll never see...and it's not my intention to hang around someone that has his hand out all the time..I am too busy working and earning my way through life...I have calouses thick enough to play catch with chesnuts and I have lifted my hammer almost as many times as I have blinked...I see people who use excuses to keep from participating in the common goal..and I fart in thier general direction...ADHD bahh..I cant work because I have too many kids..bahh I have a sore back..bahh..we all have something to contribute..I think ...
It makes me sick to see someone laze and waste a good body..when there are people who cannot walk/hear/talk/see..so I feel no pity for the self induced helplessness they live in...and I do mind sending in my money that supports them...
Forgive me for wishing the victims of Katrina blessings..and forgive me for working 6 days a week to cover my bills...forgive me for hanging out at the bar till 12:00pm and trying to get *lucky* I really need the sleep! I am glad I can get off MY ARse and do something ...there are too many that wont....
Have a Coke and a Smile
<:{{{}}}><

[atholon]

Hehehe you talking to me? :P

I pay social security

[-live-wire-]

No Ath ..I was replying to BadDogs reply.. Its good to see you m8 ! This thread wasn't about God or a hurricane..It was about the way the people acted when they were stricken with Katrina...People were trying to rescue them and had to turn away from the violence...people used the disaster to rob/rape/kill/set fires and take advantage of the situation...kind of makes me sick at my stomache...as well as the welfare state that promotes this type of agri-culture....
They should have been more worried about evacuation....instead of a welfare check...
<:{{{}}}><

[Dr. Bullet]

I highly disagree about anarchy following removal of welfare. We as Americans have always been ones that when we have a problem and must face the problem or else die, we face it and prevail. These so-called needy would do one of two things after welfare is gone: die or find a way to sustain themselves. I doubt they are so lazy that they would die.

One thing that stood out to me was the number of overweight people. And I'm not talking about chubby, I mean FAT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but poor people can't get fat. When I go to actual poor parts of the world or see them on TV or in pictures, there isn't a fat person anywhere close. "Food" for thought.

As for how things look to the world, who cares? If memory serves me right, the North Korean government is living it up while its entire population is experiencing famine and starvation. Is the world doing anything?

I look at God as my/our Dad. Since you're a father, I think you'll be able to relate. You tell your child not to do something, say, touch a hot stove. Your child begins to touch it, you warn him again. He tries to touch it again, you warn him. Yet again, he tries to touch it, but in order to teach him a lesson, you let him touch it. Is that cruel and heartless? No. Your child would not heed the warnings, so you allowed him to get burned, thus teaching him a valuable lesson or two, namely that when you say "no", you mean business.

I view disasters in the same way. Yes, they're horrible. Yes, they're very painful. But it sure as hell got everyone's attention. Since the beginning, God has been telling us no. And since then, he's been having to get our attention and let us know he means business.

Part of it could be that the people in New Orleans need to elect a better mayor; he could have trucked and bussed all those "poor" people out. He could have asked for national support in moving these people. They knew the levees were damaged, so they could have done something. Maybe Katrina will serve as the hot stove to get some important changes moving.

On a similar note, maybe God was simply pissed at New Orleans. Something is wrong with a city and its citizens that allow people to snipe rescue personnel. That mob you were talking about- they could easily take on these snipers, and that's just one guy at a time. These snipers were always there. The murder rate is 10 times the national average. Last year, they had 265 murders just in New Orleans.

Frankly, I'd be pissed at a city like that.