UN stats.

[KU43]

In the Who r u 4 Bush or Kerry forum alot of people said they would'nt want to live in America because of all the crime and all the guns. I said BS then and I'm saying BS now only I have the UN, WHICH I THINK SHOULD TAKE A FLYING LEAP, stats. saying the crime rate is higher in Europe than America. It's just simple math. If someone wants to rob, murder, rape, and plunder, given the choice, he'll pick Europe because he would be in a WORK SAFE ENVIORMENT. It dos'nt take a rocket scienest to figger it out. A man, armed is a citizen, a man disarmed by his government is a subject. Since WW2 57million people have been murderd by their governments and it all started the same way. GUN CONTROL!

[SilentTrigger]

Only you have the UN? UN stand for what? Unless its United Nations because that just dont make much sense. Secondly the life with gun control is great! Thirdly im a citicense not a subject!

[BADDOG]

This is pretty controversial stuff guys but their are arguments for both sides.

Regards

[KU43]

Then why don't I ever see a sign in someones yard saying "OWNER BELIVES IN GUN CONTROL AND IS UNARMED"? In Europe they tell their women to just submet to being raped or take a self defence course even thought a man has greater upper body strenght than a woman. Three or four years ago the Assie government banned gun ownership, then they banned swords, now they want to ban crowbars. They have now passed a law saying it is o k for their troops to shoot their owne citizens. The Jews were disarmed with gun control by Hitler.It's happening right now in 3rd world countrys. Any one supporting gun control is using no logic at all or using its followers to make them rich like Shara Brady and her non-profit Handgun Control. She pays herself $900,000.00 a year! She knows what she is doing. Living off peoples fear and stupidity.The Bible says 'When a man is armed his goods are safe.Lennon refered to gun grabbers as useful idiots. Hell I could type all night about this **** but I want to play some DF

[Lakie]

Three or four years ago the Assie government banned gun ownership, then they banned swords, now they want to ban crowbars.

In defence of my country...

No they didnt - For a start Firearms and sword and crowbars ownership is not a federal issue it is a state issue, you can not reasonabley say that the aussie government banned them, they didnt, theyve got no constitutional power to do so.

In all states afaik You can own guns, swords etc if you have a reason that includes security guard, martial arts, sports, collector/collectable, family heirloom. look up samurai sword on ebay australia and tellme that all those people selling those are perfroming illegal acts...

As for the crowbars they are not banned, id bet that what you mean is that there is an offense of carrying a crowbar around in an offensive manner, chances are it is just like a fishing knife perfectly fine to have it, you can buy it at kmart etc but if you take it into a nightclub at 2am and wave it around at everyone....

And regarding europens telling their women to submit to rape, for starters europe has lower rape stats then the US (i could get into possble reasons why but its probably not suitable for this forum but it has to do with censorship) and the statement is not true no western countries tell people to submit to rape infact some european countries have some of the toughest laws in this area.

And women who know martial arts can easily 'beat' a guy who dosent know self defence, martial arts isnt always about brute strength, infact women are sometimes at a advantage over guys, often ive had intense sparring sessions with females and 'lost' or only just 'won'.

Why are you so scared of your government? For the last couple centuaries or so the USA has been a shining example of a democracy of leaders that are elected and have the mandate of the people, there hasnt been a tyrannical government that repressed everyone, if you were in Iraq or something id understand but what has the US government done to disown its citizens?

[SilentTrigger]

"Sweden, supposedly the land of granola-munching socialist peaceniks, had 10 murders for every 100,000 people. Yes, Sweden is branching out and is no longer just Suicide Central.
Maybe Stockholm will take a cue from our Second Amendment and allow its citizens the right to defend themselves from its out-of-control population of greasy-haired blond killers."

That is quite interesting...
Only problem is its false, the murder rate is around 1/100 000/year

That beaing around 90/year

[bobsm8]

and the good old UK has unarmed police and is one of the least likely places in europe to be faced with armed crime...although it is on the rise i see it as a good sign they refuse to use weapons while patrolling in normal areas ..oh...and we still feel safe to walk about at night .. :P

[SilentTrigger]

Its heroic! Same in finland. Our police is allways armed with a gun

I just thought about that suicide central thing, i think its actually alot because of the nordic winters and long summers.

4 months of constant darkness can get on your nerves (it did it to me and i didnt even live there, only visiting my mums child hood town. Its also a strange feeling to be sleeping when there is day time for around 4 months, hard to sleep. My mum couldnt take it, she didnt take her life though, she moved. But many suicided are because of this, many cant take it and goes nuts.

Although the suicides dosnt have anything to do with gun control anyways.

Also i must say Congratulations to that blackbelt (im guessing you have one heh) as ive never done that

[KU43]

http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/australia.htm Thats where I got my info on Aussie's laws.Just who in Australia determends who and who can't own a weapon, or a sword, or a crowbar. And what is next on their list, sharp pencils, fingernail clippers,or mabey pointed toe shoes? Will your police crush them in front of your eyes like they did the match grade AR-15s,and other custom long guns and hand guns of your countrymen? And where does it all end?And if you realy think the police in the UK are unarmed, look in the trunk of their car. Chances are you'll find an MP-5.

[Lakie]

Australia determends who and who can't own a weapon, or a sword, or a crowbar

If thats a question its up to the individual states, laws will be different in each state, where the federal government does have some control is importing and customs.

The link posted above
Collectors and people with legitimate cultural, religious or military reasons to own swords will be exempted

Let me pose some questions to you:
Should a gang be able to walk through a shopping complex wielding swords menacingly, scaring everyone else in the vicinity?
Should a martial artist be able to own and use a sword for the purpose of their sport?
Should a mentally unstable person be able to get their hands on a gun?
Should a professional shooter, farmer or paintballer be able to own and use a firearm/paintball marker for sport or work?

[SilentTrigger]

Originally posted by KU43
[url]Chances are you'll find an MP-5.

I surley doubt it!

Also Gun control, is just that, control. Gun control doesnt forbid the use of weapons, but it limits the chance of a gun being used by the wrong person, as the exaples that mike tookup above.

Just because Sweden, Australia etc got gun control doesnt mean that the hunters need to use there hands to kill their animale. Its stops a non certified hunter using weapons to kill an animale. We have very strict gun laws in Sweden (what you call gun control) that limits the use of weapons. For the use of weapons you need to have a reason for it. For example sports use, certifed hunter, with legimit hunter license and gun license, police, guards (like body guards) etc. Sure there are illegal weapons, this is the case in any conunty on the planet, there are people who use illegal weapons, which is hard to stop. But to limit the use of any type of weapons you limit the use and abuse of these, making it a smaller chance to be killed using a weapon, which in sweden is down to around 1/100 000/year.

[KU43]

#1 no one should be able to infringe on another person's rights but when a government takes away a person's right to defend himself thats what happens. Then the government will make more laws to take more means of self protection away from honest citizsons. This scam has been used by governments for 250 years. History repetes it's self. Do you think any of those punks running your malls will turn in a weapon if it's outlawed? Do you think they would be terrorizing your people if they had'nt been disarmed by your STATE governments? #2 Any responsible person should be able to own a sword, a knife,or a gun for sport or any other reason. Owning a weapon has never turned a person into a killer,it only keeps away the ones that would cause him harm. #3 No, and there are all ready laws to keep that from happening but with all those illegal handguns being flowen in to your country from China I guess it would be pretty easy for him to get a hold of one. #4I think I anwsered that one on #2. I'm not trying to be an ass hole Im just trying to make people understand that there has never been a government in history that hasnt ended up taking everything from its people FROM BONDAGE COMES RELIGION, FROM RELIGION COMES COURAGE, FROM COURAGE COMES FREEDOM , FROM FREEDOM COMES ABUNDANCE FROM ABUNDANCE COMES COMPLISITY FROM COMPLISITY COMES APATHY FROM APATHY COMES DEPENDANCE AND FROM DEPENDANCE BACK INTO BONDAGE. THE CYCLE OF CIVILIVZATION also in the UK your police have a quick responce teams that are armed to the teeth GO TO THE WEB SIGHT. DONT TAKE MY WORDS DONT TAKE THE WEB SIGHTS WORD. JUST DO A LITTLE HOME WORK AND READ BETWEEN THE LINES AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

[SilentTrigger]

Firstly, no one took our right to bear arms, it has not existed in several hundred years, its worked great. Secondly, no one took our rights to defent our self. Using a gun as "protection" is out of the question in my mined, it will only do things worse then they already ware. The law hasnt changed much at all. No i dont think they will turn them in, that not the issue, the law makes it possible to remove that weapon off that person in case of use. Its illeagal to bear weapons in public places unless you have specific permission and training.

2# They are, enough of information. Theres even people with AK5 in their homes, only difference is that they are trained to use them and they fallow the laws that restrict the use.

3# I dont know what you are refering to, please quote the part your refering to (i will use numbers as thats what you used to seperate) Most handguns on the streets are glocks and those types of brands.

#4 Answered what?

How long will that take? Should I wait 1000 years? My rights havent been taken aways so far so why would they do in the furture?

"THE CYCLE OF CIVILIVZATION also in the UK your police have a quick responce teams that are armed to the teeth GO TO THE WEB SIGHT"

One word, might be a bit rude but, "DUH!".

"DONT TAKE MY WORDS DONT TAKE THE WEB SIGHTS WORD. JUST DO A LITTLE HOME WORK AND READ BETWEEN THE LINES AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF."

Why? I like how the laws are here, what more is there to look into? I sertently wouldn't want it to be leagal to bear weapons on public places. I want to be able to go out with out feeling threatened by everyone on the street. I feel secure now and i like that feeling.

[KU43]

SILENT TRIGGER A government that does not permit it's citizsons to have the right to keep and bear armes should be feared. The UK is trying for a total ban on hunting.Why? A ban would increase the animal population to the point that many would starve others would find different eating habits efecting other animals. So what reason is it the government wants hunting banned?You will never know the thrill of putting a small piece of lead through a smaller piece of paper a few hundered yards away. I've been shooting for over 40 years and it is the only thing I dont tire of, wifes included,Along with the shooting comes 4 wheeling out in the Arizona desert exploring old mines and ghost towns. But the most important I go to bed at night knowing my family is safe from being a victim BECAUSE they were taught when young how to shoot just like you were taught to cross the street. All three of my girls can handle a .44 mag to a full auto AK-47 and everything in between. but you will never know the thrill because your government forbids you one of the basic human rights and it being that way for 200 years does'nt make it any less wrong Oh yea one more thing I was anwsering the questions Mike had asked

[Hellfighter]

Originally posted by KU43

1.) In the Who r u 4 Bush or Kerry forum.
2.) alot of people said they wouldn't want to live in America because of all the crime and all the guns. I said BS then and I'm saying BS now only.
3.) I have the UN, WHICH I THINK SHOULD TAKE A FLYING LEAP, stats. saying the crime rate is higher in Europe than America. It's just simple math. If someone wants to rob, murder, rape, and plunder, given the choice, he'll pick Europe because he would be in a WORK SAFE ENVIRONMENT. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
4,) A man, armed is a citizen, a man disarmed by his government is a subject. Since WW2 57million people have been murdered by their governments and it all started the same way. GUN CONTROL!

OK i break it down for you:

Subject:
1.) i am for W Bush.

2.) as for the crime in America we have a very large amount of people were then those in Europe. it don't matter anyway crime is world wide. if you total it up you find most area of the world is really bad anyway.
( thank god i live in the country side and not in big city's any more)

3.) we all know that the UN is mud anyway they getting payoff to look the other way now days.

4.) gun control is good to a point. its when it may get out of hand it kills the fun on having a gun/rifle (no license on shotguns i love my 10g shotgun)

added note UN trying to ban the people of the world on a gun control ban? it would make it essayer for the terrorist and other to go into a area without much a fight. thanks god for the mob and freedom we love so much in the USA. like to see Northern Korea invade into the USA they have trillion of US people & the Arm force together to fight with. unlike say Germany (for a sample only) USSR and walk on in (Old days) without much a fight from the people. not counting the Arm forces there. you add them all together people and the arm force they can really rack-up a lot of kills.

sample:
1.) People who has guns/rifles: 3 million of them.
2.) the country arm forces: say 500.000.00 of them
will you see add them all together they really can be something. as you said do the math right lol.

In the US-Arm force we have many level of arm forces not one of it we have 5 level of arm force there are: [1]active, [2]inactive,[3]reserve,[4]retire reserve, and the [5]national reservists service to. for each branch of the service of the arm forces in the US-Arm Force.

this is all so for the USA: Navy, Air force, Army, they have low levels of their branches of each of them in some reserve. each of them have 5-level to them.
army 5 reserves branches and same for air force and and the Navy too and so on.

[Lakie]

i dont have the time this minute for a full rebuttal, but what you dont realise is that I (and Silent trigger i assume) dont have to be fearful at nigh.

Often in my area we leave doors and windows open to get a breeze through during the summer, i can go to the local shop and not have to worry about locking the door. I can ride in the front seat of a taxi (cab) because the drivers arent worried im going to beat them to a pulp. I can go shooting any time i want indoors and outdoors, I can walk through any part of the (capital) city without thinking im going to be mugged, robbed, shot. Our society is by no means utopian, its not like there is never s single crime committed, but a armed robbery is very rare, a murder makes healine news not a 2 line sentence in the paper etc etc

[Hellfighter]

now days yes same here BB/Mike.

not like in big city sample USA miami Fla you live in the city area you may find your house rop by some low lifer. i leave my home (were i live now) go to town 8 miles away and my home is unlock wide open don't have a care in the world it will not get rop at all. never happen in my area we don't have much crime in my area ether at all.

[KU43]

Was'nt it Benjerman Franklin who said " A person who trades liberty for safety deserve neither

[SilentTrigger]

"You will never know the thrill of putting a small piece of lead through a smaller piece of paper a few hundered yards away. I've been shooting for over 40 years and it is the only thing I dont tire of, wifes included,Along with the shooting comes 4 wheeling out in the Arizona desert exploring old mines and ghost towns"

Who said i didnt shoot? I can get down to the local firearms club and shoot a bit, they have a license for carring out that kind of service, I have been shooting rifles. You need to understand that its not a ban of weapons, its a control. They control the use of weapons. Seconly what happens in UK doesnt effect me. There wont be a ban on hunting weapons aslong as the king lives and i doubt there will be any ban after that either as the weapon is the source for food. There is however a control on who can leagaly hunt. Its not only for the safty of the shooter but also the safty of the animale.

Its also differenct, the american constitution says that all have the right to bear arms. We dont have that, so no one has taken that right from us as that right hasnt existed.

My cussins are also hunters, in the north wilderness. Using wolf/dogs go get around and i know the thril of that aswell, no one has taken thier weapons away either. Nothing is quite like raindeer meat.

"Was'nt it Benjerman Franklin who said " A person who trades liberty for safety deserve neither""

I think he was saying that in response to America, not the world as the constitutions arnt and havnt been the same as in USA.

[KU43]

how long would it take an army to take control of the civil population of the UK? It would depend on how fast they were going, because nothing could slow them down.thomas jefferson said "before a standing army can rule the people must be disarmed.as with most countrys in europe. the whole body of the people consatuites a power far greater than any band of troops." samule adams said " to disarm the people is the best and most effective way to inslave them" histroy proves they were both right. what would have happened in the UK if the people of the USA had'nt sent the UK are hunting and sporting weapons at the start of ww2? it saved their hide until they came up with the sten,i have a britsh mark 2, because after ww2, the britsh civilions still coult'nt own one. so so much for lessons learned. there is'nt an army on this earth including our own that could take american soil. there is no logic at all involved in gun control and histroy proves it