Gay marriages for UK now.

[zaitsev]

im not suggesting anything, i was not there at the time to know for sure. Throughout time the bible has been translated into different languages and alot of the bible has changed meaning and wording. I find it funny that people are ever so fast to pull the bible out when they disagree with something, yet for the rest of the time they ignore it. do you believe we were created in 7 days? do you fast during lent? do you go to mass every sunday? of course you never work or go shopping on sunday? you follow the 10 commandments strictly, and all you have lost your virginity before you have married its time for your public stoning. and oh dear, all of you who have got devorced and want to remarry, if you do that your commiting adultery "And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." you see, if you want to use the bible as an argument, dont be a hypocrite!

[Dr. Bullet]

As a matter of fact, no, I believe we were created in one day (less than one if you want to get specific). Lent is a Catholic tradition, not a Christian tradition. Mass is also Cathlolic, but God doesn't require you to go to any gathering once a week, though it's encouraged. The working or shopping thing was for the Jews, and anyway, Jesus dying ended those rules. No one call follow it perfect- that's why there's this thing called forgiveness. Some have and do I think divorcing is wrong, except in some cases. Marriage is quite frivolous and meaningless to people of this generation, which is why gay marriage is even a question. I guarantee if you went back 30 years, you'd get shot for even broaching the subject.

[Lakie]

for thos interested, weve had a debate on the whole does god exist situation, thread is called God or No god, by blueprint in the general forum, id provide a link but im to lazy.

[BADDOG]

Originally posted by BB/Mike*MFA*
for thos interested, weve had a debate on the whole does god exist situation, thread is called God or No god, by blueprint in the general forum, id provide a link but im to lazy.

I remember that debate Mike and it was very good too!!!! I don't think for one minute yout to lazy mate more like to busy with all the stuff you have going on down under!!!!

Warmest Regards to you in the fair land of Australia

[Erik]

I'm glad the U.K has allowed it, and I hope the U.S. does too. It doesn't effect my life. Let them be happy.

[zaitsev]

Originally posted by Dr. Bullet
As a matter of fact, no, I believe we were created in one day (less than one if you want to get specific). Lent is a Catholic tradition, not a Christian tradition. Mass is also Cathlolic, but God doesn't require you to go to any gathering once a week, though it's encouraged. The working or shopping thing was for the Jews, and anyway, Jesus dying ended those rules. No one call follow it perfect- that's why there's this thing called forgiveness. Some have and do I think divorcing is wrong, except in some cases. Marriage is quite frivolous and meaningless to people of this generation, which is why gay marriage is even a question. I guarantee if you went back 30 years, you'd get shot for even broaching the subject.

im not sure where you got all that info from but you should definitely check your source on religion as not one word you said there was anywhere near a fact, and im glad you believe in forgiveness and acknowledge with time things change. and if jesus dying ended those rules its perfectly fine for gay people to get married then

[BADDOG]

Perhaps I've missed something here but I don't seem tp recall any passage in the bible that say anything about Christ's death having anything to do with "gay" people being allowed to get married?

I was under the impression he died for all our sins including the sin of homosexuality as well as murder, adultery, theft etc? Something about "man not laying with man"?

Of course I'm no expert but I thought that Christ died for all mankind that we may learn to live with out sin, a forlorn hope admittedly but I thought that's what he died for?

Regards

[zaitsev]

yes, but what im saying here is how can anyone judge someone else for a sin when they themselves commit sins

let he who is without sin, cast the first stone

[NaughtyPerry]

.

[bb Edit] Advocating voilence like that IS NOT tolerated on these forums. Consider yourdelf warned.

[BADDOG]

Originally posted by zaitsev
yes, but what im saying here is how can anyone judge someone else for a sin when they themselves commit sins

let he who is without sin, cast the first stone

Ideally we shouldn't judge each other at all but we do because it is part of nature as human beings. Sin is part of who we are but we needn't add to it as if it just doesn't matter by allowing any thing and every thing to go on.....

Warm Regards

[Dr. Bullet]

Originally posted by zaitsev
im not sure where you got all that info from but you should definitely check your source on religion as not one word you said there was anywhere near a fact, and im glad you believe in forgiveness and acknowledge with time things change. and if jesus dying ended those rules its perfectly fine for gay people to get married then

Not one word huh? I guess I'll itemize it all for you. Genesis 1:27- "So God created man in His own image." If you take the time to read it, that was at the end of the 6th day, which is how I figure we were created in less than a day.

I cannot find mention of the season of Lent in the Bible, no matter the version. Why? Because it's a "holy" season created by the Catholic church. Since it's not in the Bible, I'm not too worried about it.

Not to say that the commandments are to be discarded, however, it was part of the old covenant with the Jews and God. When Jesus died, there was a new covenant. Part of the reason for this is because the old covenant was so ritualistic, and the Jews were focusing too much on ritual- interestingly enough, this is very similar to Catholocism (ritual centric). I don't feel like putting forth the research effort to prove it, because I honestly think it would be a waste of my time (even though I know it's there), but the commandments still stand. As such, the command to keep the sabbath holy would still stand. However, it says nothing about going to church or mass. And if that isn't enough, Jesus worked on the Sabbath and didn't go to church. He leads by example my friend.

Is that all, or was there more you needed clearing up on?

Honestly, I'm not judging gays because I think they're sinners. I'm not saying they should be treated as lesser individuals because I think their lifestyle is sinful. I believe that all people should be treated equally, which is exactly why I think that gays should not get their own special set of rules. We all play the same game, so why not use the same rulebook. As wrong as it is to me, you can be homo as much as you want, but don't try to use it to change the way things are run.

[BADDOG]

Fair comments in that post Dr B bro this has turned into a very good debate!!!!

Warm Regards

[zaitsev]

That's surprising, especially since Lent is one of the oldest observations on the Christian calendar. Like all Christian holy days and holidays, it has changed over the years, but its purpose has always been the same: self-examination and penitence, demonstrated by self-denial, in preparation for Easter. Early church father Irenaus of Lyons (c.130-c.200) wrote of such a season in the earliest days of the church, but back then it lasted only two or three days, not the 40 observed today.

In 325, the Council of Nicea discussed a 40-day Lenten season of fasting, but it's unclear whether its original intent was just for new Christians preparing for Baptism, but it soon encompassed the whole Church.

How exactly the churches counted those 40 days varied depending on location. In the East, one only fasted on weekdays. The western church's Lent was one week shorter, but included Saturdays. But in both places, the observance was both strict and serious. Only one meal was taken a day, near the evening. There was to be no meat, fish, or animal products eaten.

Until the 600s, Lent began on Quadragesima (Fortieth) Sunday, but Gregory the Great (c.540-604) moved it to a Wednesday, now called Ash Wednesday, to secure the exact number of 40 days in Lent—not counting Sundays, which were feast days. Gregory, who is regarded as the father of the medieval papacy, is also credited with the ceremony that gives the day its name. As Christians came to the church for forgiveness, Gregory marked their foreheads with ashes reminding them of the biblical symbol of repentance (sackcloth and ashes) and mortality: "You are dust, and to dust you will return" (Gen 3:19).

By the 800s, some Lenten practices were already becoming more relaxed. First, Christians were allowed to eat after 3 p.m. By the 1400s, it was noon. Eventually, various foods (like fish) were allowed, and in 1966 the Roman Catholic church only restricted fast days to Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. It should be noted, however, that practices in Eastern Orthodox churches are still quite strict.

Though Lent is still devoutly observed in some mainline Protestant denominations (most notably for Anglicans and Episcopalians), others hardly mention it at all. However, there seems to be potential for evangelicals to embrace the season again. Many evangelical leaders, including Bill Bright of Campus Crusade and Jerry Falwell are promoting fasting as a way to prepare for revival. For many evangelicals who see the early church as a model for how the church should be today, a revival of Lent may be the next logical step.




For just as the new heavens and the new earth which I make will endure before Me" declares the Lord, "So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the Lord."

"Her priests have violated My law, and have profaned Mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from My Sabbaths, and I am profaned among them,"

Sabbath is the seventh day of the Creation week. (Genesis 2:2).
It is the day of Sabbath rest. (Genesis 2:2; Exodus 34:21).
"Elohim blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:3).
"Yahweh blessed the sabbath-day and hallowed it"(Exodus 20:11).
He called it "my holy day"(Isaiah 58:13).
Sabbath was instituted by Yahweh in the beginning of Creation(Genesis 2:3).
Sabbath stands as a memorial of the great creation work of the first week of time and pays homage to the Creator. (Exodus 20:11).

and oh dear not just for jews;

"The Sabbath was made for man"(Mark 2:27)
and not for Jews only. It is given for heathen too(Isaiah 56:2-8).
It is the Sabbath rest for man and beast(Exodus 20:10).

[Dr. Bullet]

If you're going to use someone elses work as your post, please put the link, otherwise you appear to be a plagarist

What I'm trying to tell you is I don't care what a council of men decrees. This organization of men has nothing to do with the Bible and God's will through the Bible. The Council of Nicea was a part of the organized, dogmatized church which shortly became the Holy Roman Church.

Also, if you quote verses, please post the entire thing. It can be very misleading otherwise.

Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." That last little bit changes everything.

Isaiah doesn't change anything. I never said it was to be disregarded. What I did say is observing the Sabbath has nothing to do with going to church every 7 days.

What you keep focusing on is the ritualism that one must supposedly have in order to gain entry to heaven, when all one really must do is ask earnestly for forgiveness and ask for Jesus as one's savior. There is no ritualism in Christianity. Observing silly ritualistic seasons because a few guys said so is no reason to think that God commanded it. Look at the recent debate over changing Christmas to "Winterfest" or the "Winter Festival". Just because a bunch of people get together in a council and outlaw Christmas, doesn't make it right.