Map Designers: An Appeal

[hipshot]

Attn: Map Designers!

I really appreciate the time and talent involved in creating maps so I want to begin with: thank you!

I find that the accuracy of the bots in EVERY custom map COOP game i've played is very, very high. Please make some coop maps with bots that don't have perfect accuracy! Or maybe release 2 versions of your map: "Normal" & "Veteran", with bot accuracy on "Normal" matching the difficulty of the stock maps, and "Veteran" for the meat grinder difficulty that seems to prevail currently.

Thanks!

[Linker]

To hard For You! Ill Remeber It For my Next One.

[Steve]

hehehhe

maybe the map makers should give them water pistols

[atholon]

That is like Raven Shield I hate how accurate they are.

[hipshot]

"maybe the map makers should give them water pistols"

That would water down the gameplay too much!(no false bravado on my part, the ultra-high diff. takes the fun out of it for me).

From what I've experienced on every map I've played is everyone dies every few yards. It's only because players re-spawn dozens of times that the map is completed through simple attrition of the enemy by re-spawned players, not by skill (not that there aren't plenty of skillfull moments by players). There may be exceptions to this observation on locked games w/ dedicated hardcore players, but I've never seen that on a public coop custom map. Since the bot accuracy is so high, and everyone dies repeatedly, there is no shame in dying, and little incentive for a more skillfull approach. Heck, you'd have to belly crawl through the whole map with a sniper rifle, and even then it would be miraculous to not die repeatedly. If the prevalent very-hard difficulty is what you enjoy, fantastic, you have an outlet. However, if, like me, you don't enjoy dying every 3 feet from unseen enemies, maybe some skillfull map designer could accomodate a style of gameplay that more resembles that of the stock Coop maps? It's a request, not an admonishment of those who enjoy the ultra high bot accuracy that all the custom maps seem to have. Also, for those who are going to reply to my respectfull request with: "you wimp!" "can't hack it, tuff" and similar "I'm a bada$#" crapola, I would love to see you play any of these maps and I'll join as spectator. If you can complete the map in under 5 re-spawns and under an hour, you will have earned the right to be a braggart... Deeds not words! Booyah!

PS> Linker: If your reply wasn't sarcastic, thanks!

[Linker]

I was serious ill make sure that I remember that. I’m like that too. If you die all the time its not fun but i do understand why they make it hard. Think about it. If you can easily run through a map it would end all the time and people would get board. But i understand why you like it a little easier. I too like it with more strategy and brains not all balls to the wall

I’m going to make some Coops. Soon thinking about a campaign ill make sure to make an easy and a harder one.

[hipshot]

Cool! Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not looking for easy. I'm looking for "not extremely hard". If me and a couple of buddies want to play in a style where the goal is not to die and complete the missions, the current custom maps do not support that style of gameplay. Yes, stock maps are "easier", but they require skill to complete without dying. They are only "easy" if the goal is to complete the missions with a high kill score. Again, nothing wrong with either style of playing, just that sometimes it's more fun to play a map with 1 or 2 friends and try to complete with minimal deaths, instead of balls-to-the-wall charging forward. Thanks for your thoughtfull reply. I was expecting to get bashed over the head when I posted this! Looking forward to your upcoming creations!

[atholon]

They make the different levels of gameplay so that you don't get bored...that way if you beat the game on easy then you have medium and hard that you can try and beat it on.

[Steve]

i need to check out some coop's then to see what you mean

[JonM]

I love hardness, gives you a real hard challenge, especially in-game online with a team. You have to work together to live

[hipshot]

Reminder: this topic applies to custom made maps...

Bumped up difficulty would be fine by me. However, if I am prone and inching forward and the instant 1 pixel of my character is within enemy range I am shot instantly and die every time...? Hhmmn, neither realistic or enjoyable for me or my friends. How does teamwork play a roll in that dynamic? It doesn't. Yeah, more players means a faster rate of attrition by the enemy, but teamwork in a tactical sense doesn't factor in to any significant degree. There remains a robotic perfection to enemy hit potential that all but negates the ability to manuever and coordinate a squad level attack.

A poor example follows:

Me: "Hey buddie, cover me as I run for that tree."

My Buddy: "I can't, every time I come within range of that bot a mile away, he kills me in under a second!"

Me: "Take em out!"

My Buddy: "I can't even see him, I know he's out there because of the tracers, but he can see through a mile of foliage, and I can't"

Me: "Isn't this extra challenge fun!"

My Buddy: "Uh, yeah,... (if I admit it isn't fun, I look like a wimp).

Here's my wish:

Supah Dupah Killa Map - Difficult
Supah Dupah Killa Map - Normal

Baked Alaskan Cobra 11 - Difficult
Baked Alaskan Cobra 11 - Normal

Or "Veteran" and "Recruit" labels etc...

All the designer has to do is change the accuracy level of the bots and he/she can appeal to broader range of players.

Please feel free to congratulate me on my brilliant idea (dives for cover)!


Atholon: the problem I have is that all the custom maps I've played do not have "Varied levels of difficulty". They all have "supah dupah, move and u die, isn't this xtra challenge fun" difficulty.