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  #21  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:51 AM
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No object or "thing" in the consciousness has value unless some "one" wants "it".The usefulness of the "thing" is another matter...

Knowledge is always a useful non objective "thing"...no matter the objective "value" placed on it...
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:13 AM
Lakie is offline Lakie

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Quote:
Quote from Margaret Mead
Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has
A famous quote from a somewhat controversial figure..

Publishing a theroy isnt so much about pushing the adoption of the theroy, its about getting people to think, its about raising public consciouness, so good on you for posting it.

John Rawls didnt really expect an overhaul of human morality when he wrote up A Theroy of Justice, yet that book flipped the political philosophy on its head and is still debated to this day.

Id suggest reading some books on political and economic philsophy, the most famous in their fields (IMO) are:

A Theroy of Justice by John Rawls
Anarchy, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick published in Direct opposition to the above
Both of these are more on the social philosophy side of things...

The End of History and the Last Man by Francis Fukuyama and
The Clash of Civilizations by Samuel Huntington
Deal with the political systems and how some come to dominance over others

And for economic philosophy id suggest looking the views of John Maynard Keynes, hes famous for "The General Theroy of Emplyment, Interest and Money" but id suggest reading about it first rather than dive right in because economic philosophy can be a screwy thing to get your head around...

Probably the most famous of critics of Keynes is Milton Friedman and von Hayek...
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2011, 04:39 PM
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Socializm or communizm :

Both have been tried, and both have failed.

Either attempt to make everyone happy or force everyone to be happy.

Human nature says my happiness is most important. And what makes me happy may not make you happy.

Money can't make you happy. Fame can't make you happy, even giving you everything you want can't make you happy.

I believe mankind is most happy when we have something to bitch about.

I think Stomp said it best :

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post
Looking at it the flow toward anarchy and civil collapse is programmed.
The world environment is creating self fulfilling prophecy, like being driven to it by unknown forces of nature.
Most civilizations have lasted longer than ours but...
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:27 PM
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One day the tot loves his toys.
The next day they are strewn around the room.
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
John Maynard Keynes
Very interesting.
Perhaps stating the obvious.
Now we know the problem but what IS the answer?
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2011, 10:54 AM
Chels is offline Chels

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I did not read all of the replies so feel free to update me but..


One thing that pops in my mind as I am reading that.

Drugs.


I know its not the greatest topic but what would people be trading that would be worth the risk to recieve drugs.

If I am paying someone $60 for a drug and they are growing it or they are recieving it from else where what would they want in return to that risk?

Also Housing etc..
Who would truly want to help build a house, an office, a sky scraper...for just a Thank you...a good feeling???

To me to be able to earn money, well earned and work hard for it. I would enjoy to have something in return and maybe some people need to not be lazy and get off their butts and that'll mean they need to work and earn money...

What would we earn without money because deep down we would love the praise and the thank yous but at the end of the day we want to earn something.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2011, 11:11 AM
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It didn't work witout money either, that's something that history has proven, it's also why we have money today
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2011, 06:50 PM
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Price...3 clamshells
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2011, 09:09 PM
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crap i only have 380ea snail shells! to trade with no clam shells

3 clam shells? how many is that in snail shells 9?
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  #30  
Old 09-26-2011, 06:30 PM
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I have actually been reading a lot about this for a Moral Leadership class I am taking for my major.

There have been a number of quotes from famous individuals about the fact that the only way there will ever be a good balance here on earth is when morality is taught consistently in the home and lived by those both teaching and learning.
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  #31  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:02 PM
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There is truth to that statement in many ways. But, it's not as easy as that because there are many sets of morals, often set by religion. What set of morals should everyone live by? What religion, or not, should everyone practice? That's a nasty battle that will never end.
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:35 AM
Lakie is offline Lakie

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I hear this quite a bit when I used to debate religious leaders on theism and atheism. That religion, if nothing else, is the source of morality...

I'm skeptical of these claims...

Ask most people of any religious conviction whether they would happily spend their day committing (fraud, theft, arson, rape, murder etc) and you won't get many people saying they would. Morality in simple form is also readily visible in other animal species, or is also visible in babies and toddlers that wouldn't know anything of religion...
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  #33  
Old 09-27-2011, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellfighter View Post
crap i only have 380ea snail shells! To trade with no clam shells

3 clam shells? How many is that in snail shells 9?
30
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  #34  
Old 09-27-2011, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBelt View Post
I hear this quite a bit when I used to debate religious leaders on theism and atheism. That religion, if nothing else, is the source of morality...

I'm skeptical of these claims...

Ask most people of any religious conviction whether they would happily spend their day committing (fraud, theft, arson, rape, murder etc) and you won't get many people saying they would. Morality in simple form is also readily visible in other animal species, or is also visible in babies and toddlers that wouldn't know anything of religion...
In hard times Many animal species will sacrifice their young to survive to breed again when things come good again.
Most humans parents will sacrifice themselves, how does this stand in the moral question?
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  #35  
Old 09-27-2011, 04:34 AM
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i was told once by a friend who said to me!

* do only that you think god would do the right thing and not the wrong thing to others or the planet.

sadly many people don't care what is morally right and feel the wicket need to do the wrong! guess it like cheating you got away with something.
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  #36  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
There is truth to that statement in many ways. But, it's not as easy as that because there are many sets of morals, often set by religion. What set of morals should everyone live by? What religion, or not, should everyone practice? That's a nasty battle that will never end.
Yeah that does throw a wrench in their gears. Most of these individuals talked about universal truths believed by most if not all religions/cultures.

This would include concepts such as: honesty, humility, faith, responsibility.

The real problem is stated to be the LACK of religion/cultural values. Not the fact that they are different.

I wish I had the book I was reading with me. It said something to the effect that more and more laws are being put in place to compel individuals to obey. No police force or governing body or judicial system will ever have enough resources to control a population who is without morals. If those morals were present many more resources could be dedicated to more productive endeavors.
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Last edited by atholon; 09-27-2011 at 11:36 AM.
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  #37  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBelt View Post
I hear this quite a bit when I used to debate religious leaders on theism and atheism. That religion, if nothing else, is the source of morality...

I'm skeptical of these claims...

Ask most people of any religious conviction whether they would happily spend their day committing (fraud, theft, arson, rape, murder etc) and you won't get many people saying they would. Morality in simple form is also readily visible in other animal species, or is also visible in babies and toddlers that wouldn't know anything of religion...
I am not saying that religion is the only way to teach good values but is often a common source of laws/commandments individuals can live by. Seriously, if I had no belief or fear of eternal consequences I would be an entirely different person. Why not rob, steal, have sex outside of marriage if there is no lasting consequence?

I personally would rather any kind of good morals (anything teaching kindness/respect/accountability/honesty) be taught at home rather than none at all, even if it isn't coming from a religion.

It seems there is a common problem with that especially now. I'll go to Walmart and see parents whose kids run all over the place pushing people, being rude, and the parents do nothing. That's the kind of attitude that ruins the future of humanity.
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Last edited by atholon; 09-27-2011 at 11:53 AM.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2011, 07:56 AM
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with each new generation of people things change some good and mostly bad.

law of the land was better then the lawyer they make laws so we stand by them! but in the end there more people then lawyer or even police force and so it's out done!

law of the land if you playing baseball and break a window you get it fix! but lawyer say you should sue in a court of law then you get more money to fix that window so it be even better then once it was broken $$$$$$$$
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:17 AM
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If we expect too much out of something it is harder when it fails.
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