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Delta Force Anything to do with the Delta Force series of games, DF1, DF2, LW, TFD, BHD, DFX, AF etc.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:14 AM
Justin09 is offline Justin09
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make any npcs navigate inside the buildings.

Is there anyway to make npcs navigate inside the buildings? For example, the littlebird will land on the top of the building, then teammates will go from stairs to outside without running to the walls or they will make 'em stuck, before they will continue to the 1st waypoint number in order to avoid 32 waypoints limit. Another example is i just messing around on Irene mission using map editor, i made the one blackhawk with ropes move to the top of the target building, but the rangers can navigate from downstairs to outside of the target building so they can continue & go to the 1st waypoint number. I mean, the great map makers can make any npcs go navigate around the rooms inside the buildings like the without if they follow the player, but they will stuck loop running to the walls. If they didn't make it, people characters won't walk around the rooms but they will stuck if they running in the walls. If the npc is on the top of the building, they will fall off the building and continue to the waypoint. So... that was crazy though... Im sorry if you don't understand because my english may be bad and also im not good at map editors ]; (i may only know to add musics to my map using area triggers, etc... but not only how to make npc dialogs, since im confused).
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:17 AM
Baldo_the_Don is offline Baldo_the_Don
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Just you asking how to make the AI work in DFBHD makes me hopeful for you.

The problem is .ain files. We can't make 'em. The tech for that was never released and has been lost.

The following will seem tangential. It is relevant.

I used to play Mechwarrior 4 a bit. Either MW:4 or the MW4:Mercs had a mission editor. One tool in the that mission editor was called a node creator. It analyzed the terrain you made, the items you placed on that terrain, the positions of the 'mechs on that terrain, and it would map out a grid of interconnecting points that AIs could and could not traverse. Consider them sub-waypoints, if you like.

DFBHD missions also require a grid of traversable sub-waypoints so the AIs can know where they can and cannot go. That information is stored in an .ain (AI navigation) file.

An .ain creator is not a tool included in NeverLogic's releases for DFBHD. We cannot at this point create .ain files for DFBHD. And for all the clever work so many programmers in our community have done in pursuit of unlocked MEds and expanded item allocation counts, none of them have attempted to reverse engineer an .ain file and make a creator for them, because (here I raise my sarcastic eyebrow) nobody makes single player maps in DFBHD, so fok 'em.

Otherwise, you have to manually waypoint a path from roof to terrain and use a lot of redirecting and similarly tedious events. It's not impossible or even particularly difficult, but it's a rube goldbergian workaround.

Adding music to user-made missions is also a harrowing experience barely worth the effort. My advice is that it's only a good way to see how bad DFBHD really is cobbled together. Do you really need a lot of stress in your hobby-life for a barely functional effect? Go for it!

I spent the last week or so modding the Battlefield 2 demo. Yeah, the DEMO. I got the program to finally SHOW an undistorted spin/tac-map, but it still can't SEE an undistorted spin/tac-map, so I gave up after attempting an arty drop on the bots at the village CP and it landed 100m east of target.

I made some sweet new sight .dds-es, though, 'cause that's what I do. I love my hobby!
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Last edited by Baldo_the_Don; 05-20-2019 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Misspelling. Some of us care.
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:53 AM
Justin09 is offline Justin09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldo_the_Don View Post
Just you asking how to make the AI work in DFBHD makes me hopeful for you.

The problem is .ain files. We can't make 'em. The tech for that was never released and has been lost.

The following will seem tangential. It is relevant.

I used to play Mechwarrior 4 a bit. Either MW:4 or the MW4:Mercs had a mission editor. One tool in the that mission editor was called a node creator. It analyzed the terrain you made, the items you placed on that terrain, the positions of the 'mechs on that terrain, and it would map out a grid of interconnecting points that AIs could and could not traverse. Consider them sub-waypoints, if you like.

DFBHD missions also require a grid of traversable sub-waypoints so the AIs can know where they can and cannot go. That information is stored in an .ain (AI navigation) file.

An .ain creator is not a tool included in NeverLogic's releases for DFBHD. We cannot at this point create .ain files for DFBHD. And for all the clever work so many programmers in our community have done in pursuit of unlocked MEds and expanded item allocation counts, none of them have attempted to reverse engineer an .ain file and make a creator for them, because (here I raise my sarcastic eyebrow) nobody makes single player maps in DFBHD, so fok 'em.

Otherwise, you have to manually waypoint a path from roof to terrain and use a lot of redirecting and similarly tedious events. It's not impossible or even particularly difficult, but it's a rube goldbergian workaround.

Adding music to user-made missions is also a harrowing experience barely worth the effort. My advice is that it's only a good way to see how bad DFBHD really is cobbled together. Do you really need a lot of stress in your hobby-life for a barely functional effect? Go for it!

I spent the last week or so modding the Battlefield 2 demo. Yeah, the DEMO. I got the program to finally SHOW an undistorted spin/tac-map, but it still can't SEE an undistorted spin/tac-map, so I gave up after attempting an arty drop on the bots at the village CP and it landed 100m east of target.

I made some sweet new sight .dds-es, though, 'cause that's what I do. I love my hobby!
If the ain editor may exists but its been long gone in the past, they couldn't make it in archive website?
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:19 AM
Baldo_the_Don is offline Baldo_the_Don
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An .ain creator was never made public. It's not impossible that a member of the DFBHD dev team has an old floppy disc lying around with an .ain creator saved on it, just so very unlikely that, a) such a disc exists, or b) that it could be found, or c) that it could be read.

It's just like the unlocked MEds, an .ain creator will need to be reverse-engineered, and none of the clever programmers left in the DFBHD community have time for that.
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  #5  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:54 AM
stompem is offline stompem
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Hey Baldo, having a Navigation Mesh (for each mission) isn't the be all answer we need when it comes to this problem.

For instance getting them to traverse between boxes and meshes, doorways etc as they move about.

Self contained smarts like get player position and get object position would be the way to go.

Embedding script into the map Arma 3 style is another way.

but the answer for this question is... it's just lot's of work and testing.
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  #6  
Old 05-23-2019, 01:31 AM
Justin09 is offline Justin09
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Also, operation brother in arms custom mission also had Ai navigation file.

But I went to open the .ain file using notepad and it looks like everything is encrypted due to these weird symbols (except the NAI2 (Navigation AI 2?) text in the first line.) :
https://imgur.com/a/QPPMG2s
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2019, 05:45 AM
Creator is offline Creator
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This is because the creator of this mission took only the target building from campaign mission "Shattered Palace" and paste "Shattered Palace.Ain" with the name "Brothers in Arms.Ain".
In this way during Brothers in Arms mission peoples navigate inside the building without go against walls but this happens only for the target building.
I did the same thing in some of my missions like: "Insurrection" and "Capture".
This is the only way to make work ain. file on custom mission...
This isn't so much but with a good idea for a custom mission before to create it you can paste the various buildings from campaign in your mission according to the progress of the mission.
Sorry for my bad English...I'm Italian
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2019, 08:42 AM
Baldo_the_Don is offline Baldo_the_Don
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Using stock maps with their .ain files is a workaround to an extent, sure, but doing that precludes you from moving any items ('cause you can't edit the .ain to reflect the items' new positions) or adding new items.

In other words, okay, you could make new missions on old maps, but that's a limit that'll get old really quick.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:22 PM
stompem is offline stompem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldo_the_Don View Post
Using stock maps with their .ain files is a workaround to an extent, sure, but doing that precludes you from moving any items ('cause you can't edit the .ain to reflect the items' new positions) or adding new items.

In other words, okay, you could make new missions on old maps, but that's a limit that'll get old really quick.
Baldo! You're exactly right about them getting old. They surely do and are.


The thing is I realized that many many years ago.


That's one good reason why I think we're all better off just starting from scratch and doing the best we can with what we know.


What can we do with the available attributes of the engine(s), rather than trying to replicate, thereby constraining creativity.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2019, 02:34 AM
stompem is offline stompem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator View Post
This is because the creator of this mission took only the target building from campaign mission "Shattered Palace" and paste "Shattered Palace.Ain" with the name "Brothers in Arms.Ain".
In this way during Brothers in Arms mission peoples navigate inside the building without go against walls but this happens only for the target building.
I did the same thing in some of my missions like: "Insurrection" and "Capture".
This is the only way to make work ain. file on custom mission...
This isn't so much but with a good idea for a custom mission before to create it you can paste the various buildings from campaign in your mission according to the progress of the mission.
Sorry for my bad English...I'm Italian
Hey! Creator - good to see you're still about the place.


Please don't get me wrong with all I said about repetition, I'm not criticizing anyone because there's nothing at all wrong with using the same town (mission area) over and over.


In reality lots of different things can happen in the same place but it would seem very hard for anyone to be original in this case, especially when you also only have certain words to work with and unless you make your own, that alone is quite restrictive.


It's really things like that which hamper us the most, so trying to find a way of building without them, or very few of them is also a challenge.


If people knew this when they played they might more appreciate the difficulties faced by the mappers in adding direction and drama to the affair.
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  #11  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:27 AM
Justin09 is offline Justin09
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One more problem, they still against the walls but since i renamed the spbhd_15.ain file to Armageddon.ain file. If im wrong, then the navigation needs to be in Target Building original coordinate position.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:35 AM
stompem is offline stompem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin09 View Post
One more problem, they still against the walls but since i renamed the spbhd_15.ain file to Armageddon.ain file. If im wrong, then the navigation needs to be in Target Building original coordinate position.
Yes Justin, all the files will need to be renamed exactly the same as the mission bms name, object positions and AI behaviours would need to be duly noted.


If you want to see a way to do it without Nav Mesh, why don't you have a quick look at the map below, it was made to help someone else with similar issues on control a few years ago now but I've revised it with ppl like you in mind, it's one in a series of mission helpers soon to be published.



Irene Fix - Rooftop landings & AI roping

http://novahq.net/maps.php?ID=11335
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