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Old 09-14-2003, 02:18 AM
Supertex is offline Supertex
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Stock map download problem

Hiya fellas,

I ran into an interesting thing the other night during a match between Force x ( «ƒ×» ), and Crusaders Squad.

In an effort to make hosting different setups easier, I downloaded your "original stock maps" from the utilities page. We have NEVER had a complaint about the maps, but <a href=http://www.crusaderssquad.net>THESE</a> guys complained enough for everyone. <a href=http://www.crusaderssquad.net/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=161&sid=4 7841cfa503f0f2dece4303810692c16>HERE</a> is one of their threads, where they dubbed us "The most dishonest squad ever known."

It seems that the tiles have been omitted from the download, which caused CS to accuse us of 'altering maps.' They used that excuse as a reason to call the MATCH that they challenged us to, a scrim instead. (Of course this was only after they began loosing.) As I looked through their forum, and noted the screenshots, I finally made sense out of what they were calling "missing streets" - LOL. They meant the tiles. Then I realized that the tiles weren't in the download.

One thing they complained about as well: the choppers didn't fly. That to me is curious. I DID change the names of the maps to what they are seen as in the game - TDMM01a to Culture Clash, for example. Could that somehow be responsible for the choppers not getting airborne? Or are the choppers grounded in those maps to start with?

I would really be interested to see if there is a reason for this little hiccup in the map action, becaue CS basically said that since we would modify stock maps, that we would do anything to win. I didn't, and still don't, consider renaming the maps, an alteration of the VR environment, certainly not as far as gameplay is concerned.

Anyway...what is your take on the chopper bit, and what is the chance of your adding the .TIL files for the stocks?...at least the TDM maps.

If you came here from our forums, <a href=http://pub10.ezboard.com/fforcexforumsfrm5.showMessage?topicID=205.topic>HE RE</a> is the link back to the thread.

Last edited by Supertex; 09-15-2003 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 09-14-2003, 06:22 PM
d3reddragon is offline d3reddragon
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Hmmm thats messed up???

I know that you can put invisible ladders..but thats the only really big thing you can allter....Download the same thing again but this time dont change the name see what happens...
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Old 09-15-2003, 03:02 AM
katana*GFR* is offline katana*GFR*

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Thats weird normally when ya dl something and theres a prob you would get errors during unpacking as far as i know
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Old 09-15-2003, 09:27 AM
Supertex is offline Supertex
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Get this...

Renaming the maps DOES cause the choppers not to fly.
Remember in the demo, when we had maps that had to be packed? Remember occasionally we would see a .WAC file?

Well that is the boolean logic file associated with the chopper's flight! It must have the same name as the map...like the .TIL. This means in the localres.PFF, there are 3 files that correspond to each map (granted that all use tiles), for example: TDMK_01a.BMS, TDMK_01a.TIL, and TDMK_01a.WAC.

Normally, when hosting a custom map server, we delete the .bms files from the .PFF, and leave it at that. Which means that the .TIL's, and .WAC's are still in there. SO...when you drop the stock named BMS's into the BHD directory, it all works like it should. This is because the .TIL's & .WAC's have the same name as the map at this point, but if you rename them, then you loose the association to those other 2 file types!

What I found, is that going back in and reverting the map names back to the stock names would fix EVERYTHING. The choppers flew, the streets showed back up, the whole deal.

Here is where it gets weird:

I went in and extracted the .TIL's, and .WAC's from the localres.PFF, and renamed them to match the map names. Funny thing is that the tiles showed up, so the streets looked right, but the choppers still didnt fly...even after renaming the .WAC to match the map name. You can open the .WAC with notepad, and see that its function is soley for the flight of the choppers.

Anyone have an idea how I can keep the names readable in the map mgr, yet keep the association with the .WAC's valid?

I am truly baffled.......
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Old 09-15-2003, 05:19 PM
Killer ~RS3~ is offline Killer ~RS3~
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My take

If you guys remember when you make the maps that if you want things to move or fly you have to set that up. That file is called an .MIS file. I did that exact same thing that Supertex has done and have had the exact same issues with other squads accusing us of cheating becuase the streets dont show up and the choppers dont fly.

Now if you want my real take on it, i would tell you that you have to be pretty stupid to think that the streets have any effect on the game what so ever. Also if you think by not having the streets on there it gives anyone an advantage you are just crazy. Any one that has played the maps enough would recongnize things like buildings out of place, implacements moved or not there at all, or new ladders in places, peolpe getting places that are just unreachable without explanations. Things like that i would assume people would recognize those changes and then ask questions. If you have ever made a map with the editor you know about the .mis file and what it does in relation to the map itself. Now as for the choppers not flying, my take is if you dont think my team or teammates are smart enough to shoot down any flying chopper your stupid. You are a sitting duck in those things and we all know if your teammate isnt in it shoot at it. Easy kills in the choppers and we all love those dumb enough to get in one and ride around in them. These map are exactly the same in every other way to the ones in the game minus the streets and the choppers ablity to fly, thats it no other altering has or would ever be done to these maps.

I dont think doing what Supertex and I have done in anyway constitutes cheating. We are both running respectbable squads and would never cheat. However it is difficult to set up a match with out naming the maps so you know what they are. It is much easier to get the maps you want in place for a match doing what Supertex and I have done then the current way of cycling thru the maps.

This is just my opinion and feel free to give me any feedback you would like.

Supertex I am with your bro.

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Old 09-15-2003, 10:58 PM
Supertex is offline Supertex
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I got the streets to work Killer, I will email you the . TIL's , and you will need to name them exactly (case sensitive) the way you have yours named.

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Old 09-29-2003, 02:16 AM
Supertex is offline Supertex
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Anyone here good enough with the .WAC functions to tell me why simply renaming them to match the map names won't fix this?

The choppers still wont fly, and I am not confident enough to begin tampering with them.
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