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Delta Force Anything to do with the Delta Force series of games, DF1, DF2, LW, TFD, BHD, DFX, AF etc.

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Old 01-24-2019, 12:52 PM
johnno56 is offline johnno56
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Ideas

I use Linux and run DFLW and DFTFD ever since I dropped windows in about 2005. I still play at least a few times a week and have been dabbling in map making for at least 5 years.

I am struggling to generate ideas for missions. I look at the mapdb's and I am amazed by the many types of maps and the skill level of the designers.

I have just about used all the win / lose conditions in the map editors and I am beginning to see a pattern of repetition in my maps. I enjoy map making but have never produced anything good enough to 'publish' nor retain. I play it a few times then delete it... Probably because even I find them a bit boring... But I keep trying.

I would appreciate some guidance in how to create 'interesting' maps and for that I need ideas... I know this may seem a bit vague but I have to start somewhere...

J
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:01 PM
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What do you feel makes your maps boring now? What's the repetition? I assume you're making SP maps?
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:54 PM
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:42 AM
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:07 AM
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
What do you feel makes your maps boring now? What's the repetition? I assume you're making SP maps?
You are correct. I only play SP and modified COOP maps. I have never played online... Let's just say, I'm the Star Trek 'Red Shirt', type of player. Getting 'killed off' early in the game is par for the course for me... lol

What makes my maps boring and or repetitious... In a nutshell, me. I start tinkering a map together using a simple objective(s) and before too long, voila!, a simple map... Almost exactly the same as a map I created some time ago...

I cannot count the number of SP maps I have downloaded to either play or "pick apart". As my OS is Linux, I am limited to DFLW and DFTFD, mainly because I cannot get the other DF games to run properly. DF2 *almost* runs ok. That is why I have been checking out ways to convert the maps. I had even considered trying my hand at 'Terrains'...

Do not get me wrong, I really enjoy playing DF and have for years, I only wish I could make my maps more interesting...

As a side note: My grandsons have see DFLW and were amazed. They had never seen it before. They enjoyed playing but were not sure about learning how to make their own games... Cool.

It's gone 1am and I had best get some sleep...

J
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by johnno56 View Post
As my OS is Linux, I am limited to DFLW and DFTFD, mainly because I cannot get the other DF games to run properly.

Go to the Linux / Ubuntu repositories and install the latest version of W.I.N.E.

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Old 01-28-2019, 01:11 PM
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I only wish I could make my maps more interesting...
Million dollar companies wish the same thing... so don't be so disappointed with your own limitations, after 5 years it could be time to admit that not everyone can do it and you are one of them.
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno56 View Post
As my OS is Linux, I am limited to DFLW and DFTFD, mainly because I cannot get the other DF games to run properly. DF2 *almost* runs ok.

Last time I checked, all the games should run with Linux as long as Wine is installed and up to date. We have a player that plays DF1 on linux as well as a few DF2 players.
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:55 PM
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Stompem and Scott,

I have been running with Linux now since 2005. Wine is and has always been up-to-date. I won't go into the earlier versions of Wine... lol At least, for the last decade, DFLW and DFTFD have both performed quite well on Linux. A few minor resolution glitches - usually when either starting or stopping DF - but other than that. All is fine (software and hardware wise...)

stompem,

As promised I will review your advise. My wife woke me at 6am to say that she is off to work... She was unaware that I finally got to bed at about 1.15am... There goes my beauty sleep... lol
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:02 PM
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Stompem,

Umm... I scrolled back to read your responses, and for some strange reason, they seem to have grown legs... lol
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:24 PM
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Stompem,

Umm... I scrolled back to read your responses, and for some strange reason, they seem to have grown legs... lol
Sry I thought you weren't interested because I publish in BHD and DFX2.


I started with CD versions of LW and TFD before I had the Internet.


Perhaps you can still find some of my rambling useful.


Quote:
This is how I do it.

What if?

I start by just putting some objects in a map - a player marker and 2 bots and just go from there adding objects as I go.

I get in the map and play it.

I go outside or somewhere away from the PC and sit down and think about it.

I go back and move things around until I get some sort of play going.... and the map starts building itself.

In other words creating random situations helps create and form ideas.

BTW I never use templates and seldom do the same thing twice, always starting from scratch with a blank terrain.






Point 2
Besides understanding why a building would be built here and not there, why certain vegetation may be present or not and how rocks form and other natural phenomenon occur I think the mapper should try to understand the principles of why things are different when everything is seeming composed of the same elements (as in nature).


Realizing that, I've developed a bit of a mapping philosophy which may help you.

A line (or road) from point A to point B is defined by the objects in it's path.

In the same way a random scenario is defined the conditions within it's scope.

As referred to above, both of these descriptions are composed of known objects and conditions but when simply randomized, they will always be different.






Point 3

Regarding Win and Lose conditions being limited in the editor, that's probably true but don't let that worry you because I think they're generally the same in the end when you look at the outcome, you win or lose.

Basically, all you have in the end is infil, mission exfil.

So I suppose it's what happens in between that makes the difference.

I think you can be fairly generic or unspecific when it comes to choosing the win and lose conditions and without using custom files like bin and wac.

This is because the player should know what to do according to how you lay the map out.

Most often people will know where to go and what to do without much guidance if it's a good map, remembering the premise of every scenario is basically already set.

IE

You are Delta Force etc...
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by johnno56 View Post
Stompem and Scott,

I have been running with Linux now since 2005. Wine is and has always been up-to-date.

That's strange, I've had them all running on Ubuntu Virtual Machines for years.


The biggest issue has always been the interface between graphics hardware and the driver software emulation.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:52 AM
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Cool... Thanks for the info...

In regards to running issues... In the past, I have always had graphics issues in one form or another, when it comes to DF and Linux. My guess would be that it probably has something to do with the graphics card. I'm not an avid hard-core gamer, as such, my card was chosen to 'get the job done' and not for high performance... I'm ok with just LW and TFD. May I ask which VM you use? I've never tried one before.

I installed BHD a few weeks ago and was impressed by the better graphics... But, it was short lived, as it would 'freeze' to the point that I had to reboot my machine. Oh well... It would be good to get further into the first level... Interested to see how it turns out...

I need coffee... Again, thanks for the info... Much appreciated.

J
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by johnno56 View Post
Cool... Thanks for the info...

In regards to running issues... In the past, I have always had graphics issues in one form or another, when it comes to DF and Linux. My guess would be that it probably has something to do with the graphics card. I'm not an avid hard-core gamer, as such, my card was chosen to 'get the job done' and not for high performance... I'm ok with just LW and TFD. May I ask which VM you use? I've never tried one before.

I installed BHD a few weeks ago and was impressed by the better graphics... But, it was short lived, as it would 'freeze' to the point that I had to reboot my machine. Oh well... It would be good to get further into the first level... Interested to see how it turns out...

I need coffee... Again, thanks for the info... Much appreciated.

J
Perhaps if you don't mind I could firstly explain a few things to clear the air and I'll get to the VM question a little later.


OK, so first off your maps are probably better than you think and perhaps for 5 years or more you've convinced yourself of that fact but I don't think so.


I suppose some of my previous comments may have seemed blunt but I meant them to be so in a constructive way.


I'm sure there's been improvement in your maps and that you are such a perfectionist that you loath to repeat what you yourself or others have already done. Commendable.



Perhaps you're experiencing something in common with all creative people.



A mapper reaches a point like a writer, where there seems to be a creative block, who knows how a writer solves it but whenever I find that there seems to be nowhere else to go, randomness as a solution lies at the heart of solving the problem.



Think about the fact that less is more.


Also as a side note it took me 10 years to be able to use variables to control my maps and truly say I knew what I was doing and variables are pretty essential if you want the random control factor.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:42 PM
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Firstly, I'm ok with 'blunt', the truth is still the truth no matter how it tastes... lol

Hey. That's the first time I've been accused of being creative... Thank you... lol But you are right. I expect all my maps to function correctly 'out of the box' and get rather annoyed when they don't.

On the note of 'creative': There was one map I made that had no enemies; No buildings; No rescues etc... It was a tunnel system where you had to find the briefcase and get out of the tunnel. There were 'ghost' cases all through the tunnel. Walls that would either 'slide' or disappear but only if you triggered certain areas of the tunnel... and a surprise ending... It wasn't very big but it took me almost 2 days to workout the logic....

Variables? I know what variables are, but I never knew they could be used in DF... Maybe I glossed over that chapter whilst reading the manual... Sounds like some research is required... Cool.

Well, you have definitely given me a lot of things to think about... Writer's block? Hmm... Could be... It's now 6:40am and I haven't had my coffee yet... Perhaps THAT might help get a few creative juices flowing? You never know. lol

J
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:44 PM
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There was one map I made that had no enemies; No buildings; No rescues etc... It was a tunnel system where you had to find the briefcase and get out of the tunnel. There were 'ghost' cases all through the tunnel. Walls that would either 'slide' or disappear but only if you triggered certain areas of the tunnel... and a surprise ending... It wasn't very big but it took me almost 2 days to workout the logic....
Sounds like what I was saying was correct and you are definitely creative.


I've been accused of being many #@!78^5 things for thinking outside the square before but a lot of PPL do like what I do.


Downloads of my maps from this site alone recently topped 90,000.



It goes to show that being tenacious is also part of the deal.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:25 PM
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I have been running with Linux now since 2005. Wine is and has always been up-to-date.

Most legacy VMs are archived at the moment.

I use VMWare to make Windows, Linux and/or Ubuntu virtual machines.

I also have Ubuntu partitions on dedicated hard drives.

I assume your issue lies with an existing dedicated machine?

OK so off the top of my head you can run XP OS emulations on linux (as a virtual machine) but the next best thing is WINE as you know.

Hardware is critical and you'll need GForce or ATI type driver sets, you have to run directX so the graphics card must able to do this, given the right configuration.

Open GL cards may pass on earlier games but I'm not sure.

Regarding WINE settings - OS and other environment factors come into play so separate configurations are required for some of the games.

In other words they can't all be lumped into a single WINE emulation.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:09 PM
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The 'problems' I have is more of a 'cosmetic' nature. Sometimes the game will start and the screen will have to be maximised or restored to view the game but this is rare. Most times - unless I prematurely exit the game - the system screen resolution is stuck on 640x480 until I reset it...

I couldn't remember the type of graphics card I had installed. I used to build my own until the eyesight started failing - lol - Isn't "System Info" a marvel. AMD/ATI Radeon HD 5000/6000/735/8350 series.

Windows XP you say... I think I still have the original CD floating around in storage... I will check the Linux forum and see what VM's they are using and the system requirements as well... This could be fun...

Coffee time...
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:40 PM
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The 'problems' I have is more of a 'cosmetic' nature. Sometimes the game will start and the screen will have to be maximised or restored to view the game but this is rare. Most times - unless I prematurely exit the game - the system screen resolution is stuck on 640x480 until I reset it...

I couldn't remember the type of graphics card I had installed. I used to build my own until the eyesight started failing - lol - Isn't "System Info" a marvel. AMD/ATI Radeon HD 5000/6000/735/8350 series.

Windows XP you say... I think I still have the original CD floating around in storage... I will check the Linux forum and see what VM's they are using and the system requirements as well... This could be fun...

Coffee time...
OK, they're the usual issues when running most old games on today's high res systems, also sounds like you're not concerned with upgrading to later versions of the game.
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