Kerry vs Bush

[BeBop]

one BIG one i can point out is the womd in Iraq... where are they?

[Reticle]

We really don't know where OR if they are, so I wouldn't talk too much about that. You might wanna try looking in Syria, though.

[bubbles]

hes the president of the usa what the hell do you mean he dont double talk are u a retard???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

[bubbles]

if you are a republican tune into "fox news" .
fair and balanced as they tell you . yeah right

[KU43]

CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and all the rest don't report news. They tell the people what they would like them to belive. 95% of the people in Iraq love us for what we have done for them, but I have'nt heard a word of it on any news They turned a collage prank, dished out to a few afgan pow's, into the underminding of all us troops. and the few that were involved it has ruined their lifes.i've never heard a news story about any real hero,except kerry BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE DON'T COUNT. I've never heard a pro gun story.The truth is they havnt told a truthful story since Walter Cronkite started lying to us durn the viet nam war. If you want true news you have to go out and find it cause it sure ain't on any t.v. raidio, news paper' or magazine.3 little letters keep it from happening. FCC

[G.I.JOE*MFA*]

Originally posted by BeBop
one BIG one i can point out is the womd in Iraq... where are they?

some were used on our troops...oh but the news didnt tell u did they?

theres a good reason for that...

this isnt a joke either...they were used on us back in '91 too

its called mis-information and its used quite often in politics to gain ground

also it saves from a panic througout the world

i only hear a small amount but its a lot more than most of you all will here...

[KU43]

HEY BB MIKE. A few years ago your goverment outlawed all private gun owenership. I read storys of growen men brought to tears as they watched their custom AR-15 or guns that had been in their familys for years crushed before their eyes. What I would like to know do you now have a crime free utopia your goverment guaranteed or do you still have the occasional j walker?

[Lakie]

outlawed all private gun owenership

No they didnt, you can still own a gun in australia, the spefic conditionns vary because it is a state issue so there are 6 sets of rules but if you havea legitimate reason (ie famliy heirloom, farmer) you CAN own a gun.

We even have the best shooters in the world Diamond won Gold in Atlanta and Sydeny for the Trap and we won gold in the trap in athens in the womens event.

Yep sure we have j walkers but we dont have 30,000 gun deaths (Center for Disease Control, 2001 figures) increasing at about 15% (CDC) per year like the USA has in Australia during the same year we had 333 gun deaths which is Decreasing at about 50% per decade. If someone is murdered, its actually newsworthy, not just in the back of the paper where noone reads it. Our cops dont uncip their holster and grip their gun for every traffic stop, you dont have to stay away from parts of town because there are gangsters with guns, in some parts (adelaide for one) alot of people arent to concerned with locking their house up. May not be a utopia, but i dont have to worry about being killed by a gun wielding criminal.

Incase your wondering all these gun reforms we have had in the last decade have come from the current Howard government, the same government thats been glorified for thier role in Iraq, they are the conservative party in australian politics, thats a good indication about our mentality towards guns. the ALP (our other major party) has the same stance i believe

If you could provide a source for that utopian quote that would be cool, i would like to use it for an essay i have to do at the moment....

And joe, with all due respect, the United States and co did not go into Iraq for those, they went in for the really bad NBC weapons hussien may or may not have had, not those minor (comparitively) things. I too had a friend on tour in Iraq for a while, hes a doctor, so ive heard some bad stories aswell. Regardless the government should not be controlling or dictating what the media can say, freedomof the press underpins democracy as we know it....

[Reticle]

Australia is an island. That makes things much easier as far as controlling guns go. Try to remember, just to the South of America, along many miles of almost unprotected borders, we have MEXICO. As many people as they manage to get throught Mexico (as well as drugs), guns will come through too.

btw, Fox is just about the only network there is who gives real news (most of the small town news channels do it too, but not many people watch those). Many people say it's right wing, and then say something about Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity, and so on and so forth. If you actually watched it when the news is on, you'd find it to be nicely clear of bias.

[KU43]

TKS BB MIKE. Its a little different over here. washington d.c. and chicago and a few other citys here in the u. s. a. have total gun bans, but their murders from guns is far above the rest of the nation's. but i belive a person with a gun is a citizen while one disarmed by a goverment is a subject. i dont think a mad man could shoot a school yard of childern if more people carried wepons. we have a town here, i dont remember the name, but they inacted a law that every person must own a weapon. their crime rate jumped to almost zero. since i was a boy guns have been part of my life. i wouldn't know how to live any other way. their nothing more challenging than putting a little hole in the center of a bullseye that you cant see with the naked eye. and as far as guns comming from mexico. the only guns ive heard of was durn the clinton years. a simi trailer was found full of m-2 carbines just this side of the mexico. the i.d. # were from u.s. m-2's left in viet nam. polytect was also caught about the same time with a boat of full auto ak-47's in san francico bay but all the higher ups were tiped off by some very high u.s offical and got out just in time.they think they were for asain gangs along the west coast. in america it is good since to own a weapons. now it's off to work i go.

[zza1pqx]

George Bush and the Bush family own billions worth of international oil concerns, as does Rumfeld.

The money they are making on the per barrel price rise in oil is incredible and as it can be directly attributed to US action in the middle east dont anyone dare stand and say Bush isn't lieing to his own people.

Bush knew there were attacks planned on september 11th. Whether he thought they were ridiculous claims or believed he could turn it to his own advantage is neither here nor there.

Thousands of Americans died in 911. Many hundred of American soldiers have died in Iraq (the country with the biggest oil stock on earth)

BUsh and his family have made billions of dollers, thousands of millions that is American people.
He has done it for himself.
Not for you.
Not for the American people.
Not for his neighbour.

I dont give a rats ass who is the next American president it will make sod all difference to me.
I find it bananas that you people think he in some way gives a rats ass about you though.

EDIT//
GI Joe, the US news is well known internationaly to be the most censored in the free world.
I have yet to have heard a peep about WMD being used on American troops in 91 or 2003. I am intrigued what your sources are even if you are unwilling to reveal what it is that you say you know.

[Reticle]

Yeah, just imagine if EVERYONE carried a gun. Now think of the ratio of people who DO want to commit gun crimes to those who would try to stop them. See what just might happen?

[Reticle]

btw, I've never heard of that town, but here in Florida, one subdivision did the same thing.

[zza1pqx]

Originally posted by Reticle
Yeah, just imagine if EVERYONE carried a gun. Now think of the ratio of people who DO want to commit gun crimes to those who would try to stop them. See what just might happen?

There are countries with more Guns per person than the US. Your country is unique in its gun death rate worldwide.
More people dieing by the Gun in USA than Iraq even now.

Again, makes no difference to me cos I dont have to live there.
I used to wonder why USA had so little self control but when I see posts where people aggressivley defend the right to have a gun for no discernable reason except on the off chance that someone approaches them with a gun it all starts to make a little sense.

I think you should all vote for George Bush. You are all so scared of the big bad gun toting rootingist tootingist terrorist commies anyhow. Arm yoursleves America you never know when your neighbour might piss you off and start looking like a terrorist.

I can see it now in hearings across the land,

"Are you now or have you ever been, a terrorist?"
"No Mr McCarthy I have not"

Wait a minute.......
Hang on, I have seen this somewhere before!

**thinks**

Vote George Bush. You clearly need him as much as hee needs you.
God bless America and thank the good sweet lord that the political ones in this forum are an inane minority.
(I am aware most americans are sane and beautiful people)

//EDIT
In answer to your general query made in the quote I used at the start of this post, Someone would get shot!!!!
I think there is a point being missed here.

[BADDOG]

A intersting debate this about gun ownership in the U.S., as the constitution allows for the right to bear arms, (as I understand it), it seems it would be extremely dificcult for the federal government to amend the constitution and repeal this right.

After the terrible massacre at Dunblain here in Britain, the U.K. government band the ownership of hand guns etc and the result has been, depsite the ban, an increase in the amount of gun related crime across the U.K.

It's not hard to speculate that if any American governmnet tried to ban gun ownership out right, the same thing would probably happen there.

It's a difficult question to deal with and there are as I see it no easy answers.

Regards

[KU43]

thomas jefferson said if the whole world was without guns man would be equal but knowing that would never happen he said "no man shall ever be disarmed" he also said "a population armed constuties a power over any standing army" which means the military of the u.s. or any other country would have a real hard time controlling our home land. same thing with the sweads only they go a step farther. when you are discharged from the miliary you keep your weapon and in the reserves the rest of your life.they have a very low crime rate.i know if i wanted to rob and rape and murder for a living my industral insurance rates would be alot lower in england than the u.s.i would'nt have to worrie about getting hurt on the job at all. AND ALSO im not insane and you have auto deaths mixed up with gun deaths unless mabey your the one who is.....oh never mind

[Reticle]

People talk about how awful America's policy is, but we've been the most powerful country in the world for...how many years now? Obviously we're not doing too much wrong.

[KU43]

RETICLE your right. Almost every nation on this earth run their mouth about how Americans are so this or that but when their chips are down and they need some cash or some wheat who do they come to with their sob story? China? Russia? or mabey France? I think not. They ask the most generous, strong, and free nation in the world.That would be the good 'ol' U.S.A. I'm not trying to piss off anybody but I would'nt want to visit Europe, let alone live their.Us Americans and the political partys do fight among are selfs but for a just cause we unite together faster and stronger than any nation on earth. But if I were running the show I WOULD TELL THE UN TO GO GET @#%&$#! I would pull out of NAFTA . Put troops on the U.S. Mexico border, and all U.S. ammunition would be dipped in pig fat. But that's me,and I'm insane. I FINALY WROTE THAT LONG OVER DUE E-MAIL TO HANDGUN CONTROL AND I FEEL GOOD!!!! IVE LISTNED TO THEIR LIES AND 1/2 TRUTHS 4 SO LONG AND I DIDNT EVEN RANT AND RAVE. REALY!

[SilentTrigger]

Originally posted by Reticle
Yeah, right. People who are high, stoned, really drunk, very strong, and a number of other things, have been known to almost ignore the effects of various non-lethal weapons, including tasers. and things like bean bag shotgun rounds. Also, a taser has a very limited range, and you only get one shot with it. If you miss, you're as good as dead (do you really think many serious criminals are gonna let you live after you tried to bring em down?)

It effects the nerve system in the sense that your brain can no longer control your muscels as the current from the stungun is higher then the current from the brain. Meaning your muscels becomes uncontrolable, doesnt matter if your drunk nor very strong. Your muscels cramp, they contract and the current from the brain used to release the muscle has no effect what so ever.

I have gotten electrisity through my body (around 10 000 volts, which was enough for my muscles to stop responding, cramping to a halt, a stungun use everything from 80 000 to 500 000 volts) and i know what the effects of it are, your unable to move, its kind of like having a epilepsy attack, you cant control your body.

The same thing with tasers.

Bean bags on the other hand is another thing.

This is basicly why, if you get hold of a conductive area that is elecricuted, your muscels crap so that you wont be able to let go of it. My teacher had this happaning 3 times, although he wasnt as luck as only getting 3 milli amps.

[SilentTrigger]

Originally posted by KU43
RETICLE your right. Almost every nation on this earth run their mouth about how Americans are so this or that but when their chips are down and they need some cash or some wheat who do they come to with their sob story? China? Russia? or mabey France? I think not. They ask the most generous, strong, and free nation in the world.That would be the good 'ol' U.S.A. I'm not trying to piss off anybody but I would'nt want to visit Europe, let alone live their.Us Americans and the political partys do fight among are selfs but for a just cause we unite together faster and stronger than any nation on earth. But if I were running the show I WOULD TELL THE UN TO GO GET @#%&$#! I would pull out of NAFTA . Put troops on the U.S. Mexico border, and all U.S. ammunition would be dipped in pig fat. But that's me,and I'm insane. I FINALY WROTE THAT LONG OVER DUE E-MAIL TO HANDGUN CONTROL AND I FEEL GOOD!!!! IVE LISTNED TO THEIR LIES AND 1/2 TRUTHS 4 SO LONG AND I DIDNT EVEN RANT AND RAVE. REALY!

Well actually they run to all those countries plus 10s of more countries. You did get one thing right though, USA is one of those countries.