Novalogic Server Petition

[Mabakiel]

have you people heard of spawn armor? you get the advantage when you spawn, because you have more health until you move, shoot back, wait too long, or shot at enough, hah, you can sit still, take out your law, and shoot them without moving in a few seconds and they cant kill you, ive done it, and regarding the cheaters, when there is a cheater in a NW server, and he is killing me alot, i can make the stats not count towards me on novaworld , it does piss me off, but i dont worry about them messing up my stats anymore, i only let NW record the stats from NON CHEATING games

[Mabakiel]

spawn raping is gonna be a part of pretty much every FPS, if you cant handle it, just quit gaming all together, so are you saying, in order for a kill not to be cheap... you need to wait for your enemy to spawn, and see you? i mean you have to be a really good player, to let them start shooting, then you kill them with the damn spawn armor, let me see you do that, and ill give you props, but other wise, quit whining, i dont like when im being spawn raped, but i spawn rape people too...

[atholon]

I sometimes base rape, and believe me it is not easy to take 5 people on at once, it takes a sckilled player, but I agree, sometimes you will get like 3 really good players and no-one on your team is any good, how can you shoot 3 people when they kill you 2 seconds after you spawn, base rapers in my server don't get punted, they get a warning then are banned, I don't put up with garbage from people in my server.

[‹-†Kâíshô†-›™]

Don't get me wrong players, I'm not whining. I am discussing when I HOST that I have seen players over and over again Base Rape.. and I am not talking about 5 times... I'm talking about at least 7 plus. Now yes, it does fall on a skilled player to get out of tight ass situations but how about the newbiies that dont' know any better? I mean I enjoy having 16 or more players having fun when I HOST. And I do agree, Base Rape'in does happen on just about every FPS. Its something that you can't seem to get away from and it comes with the territory. What I am saying is not fair, (not really a cheat--excuse me last post) is when a player "stays" (mostly prone) and waits for his or her "victims". I mean they never go looking for any other targets, just that one spawning area. A lot of us skilled FPS players look for the fray in searching for other targets because we know that is where the challenges are. But there are those that feel that they sould just stay in one place to aggravate another player intentionally by killing them everytime they spawn. On another note, it is very hard to try not to kill another player that just so happens to spawn not to far from you and you see them. At the same time you have others shooting at you. So, with that much going for a player... your just gonna say, "Hey.. I found a spawning point.. if I make it pass the other 3 or 5 players trying to kill me... I'll just wait here and rape that player over and over again for kicks..." I've seen it happen more than a few times. I have friends that HOST some of my maps and we all get together to talk about how to handle situations like that when it comes around. But we do warn the players if we know for CERTAIN that they are Base Rape'in (not assuming)... if they get ignorant and talk ****, then to hell with the 3 warnings.... they are history.

[‹-†Kâíshô†-›™]

Spawn Armor?.... I think I missed something.. LMAO!!!!

[Kâi§h0z-»«-Gùr£]

Base Raping is considered cheating no matter how u look at it..cheating = making it unfair for others to be able to play the game. When a person literally sits at a spawnin point, , and doesnt go out for any kills and just is consistently killin that one person who keeps spawnin in the same area and he/she hasnt even been able to move a step forward to be able to even defend themselves or even get a chance to get into the game to play w/ every0ne..thatz just not right!!! i mean to kill sum0ne once or a cpl times in a spawnin point not purposely is one thin..but to purposely wait at a spawnin point and keep killin one person consecutively is a dirty and cheap way to get points..for it takes no skill to be a cheater..and guaranteed if it happened to them they would be the first ones cryin bout it..it may continue to happen in every FPS but doesnt mean i have to agree w/ it or like it or even accept it..for on miie husband'z maps if they cheat they get warned, if they continue doin it they r banned..end of story !!

[teej]

Ok base raping is part of the game u cant tell someone to stop caus they rape u. Base raping has been going on since DF1 so no1 can complain about it cause it wont go away. Base raping not a cheat because they have to wait till ur spawn armor to wears off then try to kill you again. you will always get spawn armor so u have that little advantage to law that guy.

[teej]

Originally posted by Kâi§h0z-»«-Gùr£
Base Raping is considered cheating no matter how u look at it..cheating = making it unfair for others to be able to play the game.

Base rape no cheat.

[teej]

I dont think anyone wants to stay back around there own base and wait for someone to pop out to shoot at. So you first action is to run the the enemies base.

[atholon]

<> and ‹-†Kâíshô†-›™ your avatars look sweet. <> who made your sig? Did you? If so in what program, that can't be in photoshop...

[Mabakiel]

hah, dude ive been playing for 2 weeks, and i bet i could hand your sorry ass to you, i can tell your a newb, 1. whining about base rape, 2. HOSTING, 3. not knowing what spawn armor is

[Mabakiel]

hah, i cant believe you didnt know there was spawn armor, ive shot tons of people with a law directly right when they spawn and they didnt die. Get used to spawn raping, whats the second word in that? ahem... RAPE, if you get spawn raped, someone is clearly better than you, because they can kill you, WHEN YOU HAVE SPAWN ARMOR, and plus, you find out where the guy is eventually right? just kill him, and alot of people are too stupid to go to a different spot and go back to that same place, just wait for them.... wait, why am i giving a newb advice? oh well im feeling nice today... get skill poon, base raping pathetic newbs like you is fun, go in a newbie server and try it yourself, maybe you could get 1 or 2 kills off of it, LOL!

[Matt]

base raping is part of the game, if ur team doesnt have the talent to keep an entire squad away from ur respawn, and u cant get them out of ur respawn when they do get there, u shouldnt be playing the game. its not THAT hard to kill a raper, i do it all the time

[Mabakiel]

amen trilogy.... amen

[atholon]

Freak, what is your sig designed in? Is it 3dsMax?

[CapN'C*cksucker]

Originally posted by Trilogy
base raping is part of the game, if ur team doesnt have the talent to keep an entire squad away from ur respawn, and u cant get them out of ur respawn when they do get there, u shouldnt be playing the game. its not THAT hard to kill a raper, i do it all the time

Word. And to add a little to that, I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I will NOT be base raped. I will use the spawn armor to run my ass off, find cover, watch for the "rapist" to appear, and then put a clip in his ass. It's not hard to beat a base raper. And I'm really not trying to flame or poke fun, but punting and banning people just because they beat you consistantly is pretty sorry.It's irritating to be base raped, but nobody, NOBODY can keep it up for long. After you get them out, clay the hell out of your spawn. They'll get tired of that real quick.

[Shughart]

Thought id reply just for the hell of it .

First things first... Base raping is not cheating, its not cheap, its called skill .

Nova does infact monitor their servers, but not often, and not often enough.
The problem is they run their servers on co-located servers with serveral copies of the game running on one computer.
We dont have a clue how this affects the running of the server if a sysop is going between 4-5-how many ever games there are on one computer.

The thing is, nova are the only people who have the 'patch' to do this. You try running several servers on one computer, its laggy as hell. And their games also dont run on Linux although I've heard the next DF game in the series will.

I have personally spoken to a Novaworld sysop before.
I met him in a TFD server which was weird because you hardly ever see them in servers.
But he was about to close the servers down (his name was Sysop), at first I didn't believe he was an admin but then I checked player list and he wasn't there.

He told me to email him but put something in the subject so he would know it was me. He asured me that novaworld do care about their customers but it still took fugin ages to get an email back.
NovaWorld support is absolute bolluxs, they just DO NOT respond to most of their emails.

And I wish someone would in an interview with Marcos w/e his name is, I wish someone would just grill him about it.
Ask him WHY NW dont give a flying f**k about the people who keep them in business, and why they dont respond to emails and why they allow cheaters in their games.

If you are going to do a petition, then what you need to do is find someone who is going to the showcasing of the next DF game and get them to just stand up and ask them why they do nothing at all.

Hell id pay to see someone just stand up and pull out a petition of atleast 5000 names on it, and ask them why they dont care.

[Shughart]

Actually just out of interest does anyone live in/near Calabasas, California?

That is aparently where they are based, it would be fun to see what someone could do with a petition and a few spray paint cans

[blueprint]

Originally posted by ‹-†Kâíshô†-›™
Spawn Armor?.... I think I missed something.. LMAO!!!!

wow you really laugh at your own jokes...

Base Raping is considered cheating no matter how u look at it..cheating = making it unfair for others to be able to play the game. When a person literally sits at a spawnin point, , and doesnt go out for any kills and just is consistently killin that one person who keeps spawnin in the same area and he/she hasnt even been able to move a step forward to be able to even defend themselves or even get a chance to get into the game to play w/ every0ne..thatz just not right!!!

That's really not what a cheat is. If everyone had trainers in a game (using a trainer is cheating) then it wouldn't be unfair for anyone but yet it's still cheating. And it's not making it unable for them to play the game, if they can't play the game because of base raping they should be expecting to get on a decent squad because base raping happens with all of the best squads.

[atholon]

Yo guys, I sent an e-mail to novalogic about it this is what they said:

Thanks for your email and I'm sorry to hear of your frustrations with cheaters in our games. People think that because they see cheats in the game, that we must not care. The truth is that we have our best programmers, including the lead programmers for each project, spending months upon months dealing with these issues. That's quite a commitment, as we could instead be having these expensive resources working on the next game.

Our games are very important to us. It is very important to us that people love them and are satisfied with them. We work long and hard on the seemingly endless problems caused by a small group of hoodlums who devote their energies to hacking the game and trying to kill it.

Firstly let me assure you that NovaLogic does not permit cheaters to play on NovaWorld. However, cheating online is a pervasive problem which effects all online games world wide and trying to stop cheating is a lot like trying to stop piracy. You are basically patching holes in a dam. It has become such a common problem in online games that it is the subject of many panels at industry conferences world wide. It is an issue that all developers are faced with, and one that we are taking very seriously.


Currently, online multiplayer games are FREE for NovaLogic customers and as such, no monthly fee is charged. However, to effectively control and eliminate cheaters takes manpower, and we need resources and money in order to do this. You can see that this presents a difficult problem for the company, because short of charging players to play on NovaWorld, no money is freely available to do this. Even if we did decide to charge customers to play our games online, to pay for a team of programmers to monitor games 100% of the time, this would not eradicate cheaters. It is a problem that can not be solved.

However, I would like to assure you that NovaLogic has put the following in place to help control this issue.
We provide FREE match making services. Customers can set up their own password protected games and unless invited, cheaters do not have access to these games.

Another thing that customers may not be aware of is that we can only monitor games running on our own servers. Like many other game developers we have no control over servers set up by customers.
We make a number of server side fixes to help with various cheat problems. For example, for Delta Force Land Warrior we are currently on version 31 server side and version 7 on the consumer side. These revisions force migrations and the majority deal with issues concerning the fairness of gameplay. To put it in perspective and to understand the scope of work involved in doing this, each revision can take between 2-6 weeks to go through the proper development cycle.

We are constantly looking into ways to deal with cheating and improve services on NovaWorld and to this end, all games that NovaLogic now develop have a software key code. This system was introduced in the most recent version of Delta Force, Delta Force Land Warrior, and helps us track customers who cheat. This makes it easier for us to track and ban them and we are looking to continue with this for all future releases.

As well as monitoring for cheaters on NovaWorld servers, we rely heavily on customer feedback. With the help of the customer key code, which was introduced in the third Delta Force game, Delta Force Land Warrior, if a cheater is reported to us, we can now jump into a game where they are playing and ban them for three days. If they are caught cheating again they are banned permanently, but the nature of online gaming means that these cheaters can easily create new accounts under different names and hence the cycle starts again. This is extremely frustrating for both you and us, and only really acts as a deterrent and not a permanent solution.

We are looking at a 'vote/police' banning system also.

To summarize we are doing our best in a 'no pay environment' to continue to support what is in affect an entertainment product. We are after all, a part of the entertainment industry. It is increasingly difficult for us to justify major updates and support on legacy products that are in some cases more than 3 years old. NovaLogic can and do provide minor patches and support for older titles to keep them running online, but to extend the capability of an old game is unreasonable and is not seen in any other software product.

To put this in perspective, a film director does not edit a film every 6 months to include the latest special effects or to change the story line. In the same vein, Microsoft does not continue to spend time patching and updating old versions of Windows. They merely upgrade the software to the next version and in this case they are up to Windows 2000. This is the natural evolution of software, and something that we as an industry face.


Novalogic Technical Support, Mike
Novalogic Inc.
support@novalogic.com
Please quote all previous correspondence