Mapping related rant.

[Oscarmike247]

So, I've been working on this complex single player map in joint ops Esc for weeks now. The map looks great and I'm incorporating some very interesting ideas into the game. it was a bit different, but fun map... until...

There's this bug that I found a long long time ago when mapping for DFX that if you have too many collision meshes touching or going through each other, it causes this bug where players and AI are unaffected by collision mesh, meaning you turn into a ghost and can walk through any object or building.

Well after spending weeks on this map, the bug happens. Simply by adding more AI to one of the buildings that the player is assaulting was enough to push it over the limit. I've been over the map 10 times, there are no trees, decorations or buildings that I can move that are touching each other that can fix it, other than the objects that need to be colliding. Put simply, I can't add anymore AI or do anything with the map basically.

Needless to say. I'm pissed. I'm sick of being limited by Novalogic's sorry excuse for a game engine. There has to be another game that allows you to create single player scenarios like this without all the freaking BS.

It makes me wonder why I came back and tried mapping again. I've got all this things that I want to do for some awesome levels, but just end up frustrated because the game engine is absolute crap.

[Guest001]

It's true that you can't always do something exactly as you want it - so the challenge is how do you do it as best you can?

The limitations of an engine are simply guidelines you have to follow, it makes me try harder, so if I were you I wouldn't give up just yet.

It sounds solvable to me, the engine can handle well over 1000 objects and markers.

Check the map texture vertex level, having many different types of objects can cause meltdown more than having lots of the same type.

Try reducing the number of decorations and vegetation types etc. to bring it down.

Look for AI in close proximity to each other and their position inside objects like buildings, as well as collisions on start up.

[Oscarmike247]

Originally Posted by stompem

It's true that you can't always do something exactly as you want it - so the challenge is how do you do it as best you can?

The limitations of an engine are simply guidelines you have to follow, it makes me try harder, so if I were you I wouldn't give up just yet.

It sounds solvable to me, the engine can handle well over 1000 objects and markers.

Check the map texture vertex level, having many different types of objects can cause meltdown more than having lots of the same type.

Try reducing the number of decorations and vegetation types etc. to bring it down.

Look for AI in close proximity to each other and their position inside objects like buildings, as well as collisions on start up.

Thanks, I'm not exactly giving up. but I have been through every tree, every object in the buildings, and AI piece by piece. I spend over an hour going through each tree section making sure they were not touching one another. Even objects on the floor of building are raised just slightly so that their collision mesh are not touching the floor.

The only objects colliding are ones that I need to collide in order to make up the building structure that I need. Which really isn't that much. but it seems to be the AI that set it off. Even though they are not touching in the MED, in the game, as soon as they stand on the floor, their collision meshes are touching which triggers the bug.

I backed up my map and just started deleting chunks of objects until the problem went away. I started out by deleting large selections of foliage until all foliage was gone. didn't fix it. then I deleted building interior decoration. nothing. Then I restored the map, and removed some AI in the main building and it fixed it. so I restored them and then I deleted some of the buildings and decorations that I have intentionally colliding and it fixed it.

Long story short, I cannot have the AI and my building structure. It's either one or the other. and the building structure is something that makes the map interesting and creates the atmosphere I am looking for. Also, it is largely what the story is based on. but at the same time what good is a map without some rebels to shoot at. To change it is basically scrapping the map.

[Guest001]

Originally Posted by Oscarmike247

Thanks, I'm not exactly giving up. but I have been through every tree, every object in the buildings, and AI piece by piece. I spend over an hour going through each tree section making sure they were not touching one another. Even objects on the floor of building are raised just slightly so that their collision mesh are not touching the floor.

The only objects colliding are ones that I need to collide in order to make up the building structure that I need. Which really isn't that much. but it seems to be the AI that set it off. Even though they are not touching in the MED, in the game, as soon as they stand on the floor, their collision meshes are touching which triggers the bug.

I backed up my map and just started deleting chunks of objects until the problem went away. I started out by deleting large selections of foliage until all foliage was gone. didn't fix it. then I deleted building interior decoration. nothing. Then I restored the map, and removed some AI in the main building and it fixed it. so I restored them and then I deleted some of the buildings and decorations that I have intentionally colliding and it fixed it.

Long story short, I cannot have the AI and my building structure. It's either one or the other. and the building structure is something that makes the map interesting and creates the atmosphere I am looking for. Also, it is largely what the story is based on. but at the same time what good is a map without some rebels to shoot at. To change it is basically scrapping the map.

Do the AI all have to be in there at the same time?

How about teleporting them in as needed by variables and getting them to run in from outside in waves etc...

[Oscarmike247]

Originally Posted by stompem

Do the AI all have to be in there at the same time?

How about teleporting them in as needed by variables and getting them to run in from outside in waves etc...

Sort of, theyre not really running out. But theyre all inside of a large compound that the player is infiltrating and clearing room by room.

I did think about using teleports. In the scenario, the player can only access sections at a time inside the compound due to security doors that the player must open via control computers. I know that if you teleport a dead AI it will bring it back to life as long as you teleport before the body disappears. So perhaps i can teleport the dead AI about 10 to 15 seconds after death to their new location in the next section.

This would be very difficult though because these ai are assigned to specific groups for a reason and many individuals are linked to events that add triggered movement and such to make the AI alittle more interesting instead of just standing around like idiots. So after each teleport id have to set up even more events and re asign them to different groups each time. Ugh. Im going to sleep on it...

[Guest001]

? Lol

[Oscarmike247]

Originally Posted by stompem

? Lol

Huh?