New Experiment: Vista --> XP

[--BulletMagnet--]

So, I have an old computer sitting around that was decommissioned about three years ago. There's not much to it... Compaq Presario, AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1 GB RAM (ouch), 200GB Hard Drive, and NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE.

I know this is a dinosaur in today's times, but if you know me, my gaming consists of mapping/playing Delta Force 2 and some BHD, and this would be a nice little rig to set up again for playing those games and to avoid giving my laptop a slow and untimely death. I ran an XP machine just fine about three years ago with only 512MB RAM and it did everything I needed.

The PC has Windows Vista on it, and I'm not a big Vista hater like the rest of the tech world, but I'm thinking that with these specs, I could install XP and get slightly better performance and make this thing useful again. I know you have to have an XP CD and delete the Vista partition of your hard drive completely (it's freshly reformatted so there are literally no files to backup), but is it smooth sailing from there? I'm fairly technologically inclined, so I believe I could handle minor mishaps. The main thing I'm worried about is finding compatible drivers if I can get it to install correctly. I've done a Google check and the consensus seems to be jumbled... for some it was a breeze and for others it took days. They all seem to have a common denominator - finding compatible drivers.

Anyone have any experience/advice on this? Will the PC actually be faster and perform better with XP or am I wasting my time?

[--BulletMagnet--]

BTW, the PC takes 4GB RAM, so if anyone has old sticks lying around they want to get off their hands for cheap, I'm open.

[Scott]

As long as you can find drivers, there is no reason it wouldn't work. It helps that it's a bit older. If it came with Vista on it, there is a good chance that the hardware was out when Windows XP was out, so finding drivers shouldn't be that hard.

Installing XP is pretty easy. After it's installed, update it completely first. Then install the drivers. Reboot often after installing updates and drivers. Sometimes reboots aren't needed, but sometimes updates or driver installs lock up files used by another update or install, which could end up making you do it all over again. It does not happen often, but i've built 100's of XP machines and in some scenarios it happens.

Then start loading any programs and enjoy.. Make sure to use IE8 or another browser and have good virus protection on it

[--BulletMagnet--]

Appreciate the advice, Scott.

As for drivers, I've never really understood them. All I know is that having outdated ones screw up quite a bit of stuff, lol. Will I need to compile all the drivers I can find before the downgrade? I assume there's a network/Internet driver, so I'll probably at least need to find that to download the other ones.

Am I literally going to have to find every single driver needed for the machine to work? I would think the mouse and keyboard at least would install automatically. Will I need to hunt down display drivers, sound drivers, etc.?

[Scott]

There are four main drivers: Sound, Display, Chipset and Network. I NEVER install monitor, keyboard, mouse, optical drives, or other drivers unless it's absolutely necessary. They've always been installed automatically for me. IMO, downloading separate drivers for these devices just causes too many issues. I also rarely install chipset drivers unless it's needed for USB or some other port installed on the motherboard.

Really the only driver you need to have before you start is the network driver. I find that often times, Windows Update will download the other drivers for me after everything is setup. WU drivers are also often times more stable then manufacture releases for some reason or another. Plus they often come without any of the extra bloat programs that you don't need.

Once installed, I also NEVER update the drivers unless I have a reason to do so. I always see tech threads where someone is all the sudden having an issue, and everyone says to update the drivers like it's going to magically fix something that just started happening. Rarely have I ever had drivers become corrupt or stop working with properly functioning hardware. I'm talking over 100s of PC's (XP, Vista, Win7) built for myself, others, and the company I work with. If it isn't broke, don't try and fix it... I update drivers if I need to do something that requires an updated driver, or there is a security issue with the old driver.

[--BulletMagnet--]

Originally Posted by Scott

There are four main drivers: Sound, Display, Chipset and Network. I NEVER install monitor, keyboard, mouse, optical drives, or other drivers unless it's absolutely necessary. They've always been installed automatically for me. IMO, downloading separate drivers for these devices just causes too many issues. I also rarely install chipset drivers unless it's needed for USB or some other port installed on the motherboard.

Really the only driver you need to have before you start is the network driver. I find that often times, Windows Update will download the other drivers for me after everything is setup. WU drivers are also often times more stable then manufacture releases for some reason or another. Plus they often come without any of the extra bloat programs that you don't need.

Once installed, I also NEVER update the drivers unless I have a reason to do so. I always see tech threads where someone is all the sudden having an issue, and everyone says to update the drivers like it's going to magically fix something that just started happening. Rarely have I ever had drivers become corrupt or stop working with properly functioning hardware. I'm talking over 100s of PC's (XP, Vista, Win7) built for myself, others, and the company I work with. If it isn't broke, don't try and fix it... I update drivers if I need to do something that requires an updated driver, or there is a security issue with the old driver.

Great information! That clears up a few of those "basic questions with 10,000 wrong answers."

Sorry to bug you once more, but I'm also going to consider a small RAM upgrade. I don't want to put too much into this, but my mapping/modding experiments usually require having several things open at a time, e.g. the game, the med, tools & utilities, etc. There are so many myths spread around by wannabe's that it's hard to tell if it's worth it.

Basically, if I "downgrade" to XP, will performance be generally faster? The PC has 1GB of RAM loaded on it (using two 512 sticks), and I know Vista requires a minimum of 512MB-1GB depending on the version. Given that XP requires around 64-128MB, I assume the answer is a simple "yes." If so, which specs on the RAM need to match the original? I assume it needs to remain DDR2 and PC2-4200, but is the 240-pin also a requirement? Latency? Voltage? Just want to make sure I don't screw this up.

[Scott]

Yes it will run faster on less RAM because it requires less resources. I always like to match brands and part numbers to RAM but it's not required. I've seen a few cases where mixed voltage or mixed latency caused issues. As long as you stick to the same type (DDR2 is always 240pin), you should be ok. If you can only find ram with a higher PC2 number (in your case, say PC2-6400) it will be downgraded by your BIOS automatically to PC2-4200. RAM always runs at the speed of the slowest chip in the group.

As for how much ram you need, you only need as much RAM as the programs you use require. When your computer runs out of RAM, it uses virtual memory stored on your hard drive. RAM is way faster then your hard drive so more ram is better. BUT don't get caught up in the RAM game... There is a point when you are simply wasting money.. You can easily check how much RAM your computer is currently utilizing using the task manager. If you only ever utilize 2GB of ram and you have 16GB available, you wasted 14GB worth of money. I always install RAM based on workload. Before you go out to buy more ram, see what you are using with all your programs open after the MED has been running for awhile. If you see your RAM utilization get up there (80%+), you could possibly gain more performance from adding RAM. Having too much RAM will never hurt you though.

[RANT] Don't even get me started on the "free up ram to speed up your computer" bull crap. That's snake oil for computers. Utilizing available ram is a GOOD thing. If you want to really test if you don't have enough RAM, disable virtual memory completely. If you start getting messages about low resources, you would probably benefit from more RAM. If you never see that message, you have enough RAM.[/RANT]

[--BulletMagnet--]

Originally Posted by Scott

RAM always runs at the speed of the slowest chip in the group.

Yikes! Computers have figured out life?

Thanks for the advice again! You're probably right... I doubt I need much of a RAM upgrade with the minimal tools I use.

My laptop running Windows 7 utilizes close to all 4GB at times, especially running things like Sony Vegas, Visual Studio, games, etc. I'll keep the labor-intensive tools on that.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by --BulletMagnet--

Yikes! Computers have figured out life?

[--BulletMagnet--]

Smooth sailing except for THE FRIGGEN INTERNET.

My God, I'm about to go nuts. I've spent 5 hours on this blasted thing. I installed the chipset and display drivers (will worry about sound later), but this stupid networking thing is driving me insane. There are 600,000 answers on Google... each of them different and each of them varying by PC, weather, the amount you've had to drink that day, and the skin color of hippos.

The only Networking drive showing up is that blasted 1394 thing (which shows as a valid connection), but I don't think that's what I'm looking for here. I was told that installing the chipset would handle my ethernet connection, but no. Not one wired ethernet connection even shows up... and no type of trouble shooting can identify a network card or network drivers. Windows gives me the classic "call your provider" crap, so no help there. Got anything, fellas?

[Hellfighter]

if the MOB has been update when vista came out, most bois firmware were updated for all windows system

one time i had in my old burnout mob windows xp/ vista
got the newer bois update from intel> search D945Gnt bois installer my self, but after windows vista they drop any support for newer bois update for newer OS

count on the MOB MFG main site if there newer bois update to handle newer windows

i brag about having 1 hard drive split into two for that

not 100% on this but network is the lan for the mob maybe lookup bois update for the lan....there will fix that. bois update general cover a per-set area one for network/ lan, chipset, audio.......ect

have no id if them bois be install and save on the hard drive or in area of the mob. scott maybe know about that when they get install

[Scott]

Load up the device manager and locate the networking adapter with the yellow exclamation point next to it. It should be under "unknown devices". Right click on the device and click properties -> Details tab. Select "Hardware ids" and post up the top one.

If you can find that take a screen shot of your device manager (Control panel -> System -> Hardware tab -> Device Manager)

[--BulletMagnet--]

Hey, I'd be glad to grab a screenshot for ya as soon as I get home. I can tell you right now, though, that the only remaining devices left with the yellow exclamation point are "PCI Simple Communications Controller" and "SM Bus." I think there's an audio one too, but like I said, I can work that out later.

The chipset drivers took care of most major problems and got rid of most of the unrecognized devices, but those two still remain. Could they be the source of my downfall? I believe I tried finding and installing at least one of their drivers from the PCI Database to no avail, but I can always search for more versions.

I don't see any network adapters listed at all besides the 1394 thing (which was recognized immediately after installing XP). Internet Explorer's diagnostics test tells me they can't find any wired or wireless (I only have wired) network cards/adapters. Everything is plugged in correctly and the ethernet is breathing well back there with a cute little green light. It's just scared to unleash itself.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by --BulletMagnet--

PCI Simple Communications Controller

Find the hardware id for that and post it

[--BulletMagnet--]

The vendor ID is: 14F1
The device ID is: 2F20

Is that what we're looking for?

[Scott]

Here is a good site for you to look that stuff up:
http://www.pcidatabase.com/vendor_details.php?id=1655

Does that computer have a 56k modem in it? Is there anything under "Network controllers?". A screen shop would probably help.

[--BulletMagnet--]

I'll get ya a screenshot in a couple of hours when I get back home.

I know, however, that under Network Adapters, the only thing listed is "1394 Net Adapter."

[--BulletMagnet--]

[Scott]

What is the hardware id and device id for "Other PCI Bridge Device"

[--BulletMagnet--]

Vendor ID: 10DE
Device ID: 0269