Nostalgia
 

Oh man.. I have so many memories playing every single one of these maps in the NovaWorld stat servers for DFLW way back in the day. I found these linked to from one of my archived pages and had some major Nostalgia.

Nostalgia overload:
http://novahq.net/maps.php?CategoryI...uery=NovaWorld

i still remember my first ever online game in DFLW, pretty sure the map was Tumble Weeds (at least going off that pic in the link). that was a long time ago :D

Wanna play DF
 

Hello, guys! I'm new here but not new to DF. I was playing it very intensively DF1 and DFLW, the latter game was actuall the 1st online multiplayer game I've ever played. I've decided recently to have some DF sessions now and then, however as I see the community is very poor nowadays. So the only thing I have now is playing with friends via virtual lan (you are actually welcome as well!).

Enough with the introduction. :) So, wanted to ask you guys where are you playing and which parts? Is novaworld alive (at least for DFLW)? Or do you know anything about private servers? Thanks in advance.

Your best bet is to search for groups on Facebook. There are a few groups that get together and play df1-lw.

Question
 

Ok... struggling to figure out where the best place to write this would be!

I just noticed Novalogic patched F-22 Lightning 3 a few months ago (in May, I believe). I am dumbfounded. Why did they just update a sixteen year old game? Why F-22, of all games? What does it mean? Maybe it was just an easy patch and they realized that patching in support of new resolutions would dramatically help Steam sales.

I was reading a post by a former programmer that worked on early DF and Commanche games (allegedly... gotta take everything with a grain of salt). He was speculating the programmers for DFX2 aren't there and that's why we haven't seen a patch for it - but who did the patching for F-22? And again, why that game?

Last I heard, there was only one employee left at Novalogic - John Garcia, the CEO - but LinkedIn shows there may be a few more.

What exactly are they doing these days? What happened to Angel Falls? How are they paying the bills - Steam sales? How in the world is it profitable to keep servers running on their games? That cannot be cheap.

They were accepting peoples' contact info for the DF:AF alpha in 2011 - I can't understand how it got that far along in development and then crashed.

Oh.. and what happened to the apps they were making with GameLoft?

I wish I knew what to tell you Smurf. They also released another patch for F-22 on June 1st. I still think they have military contracts or something. There is no reason why they would be patching a really old game like that if it weren't used by someone important. It's not like they fixed the F-22 novaworld page.

LinkedIn shows there are 14 people working at NL. Only two with profile pictures and the rest, who knows how current they are? No one seems to know and they aren't releasing any info. If you follow linkedIn around a lot of people left NL around 2013, which is also when their apparent net assets went to zero.

The network that runs their novaworld servers is probably one decent sized computer hosting many virtual machines on a standard business internet connection. I do it with NovaHQ. One server now has dozens of virtual computers running at any given time, which can easily include game servers and web servers. All for a could grand for the server and $100/month for 100mb/50mb internet connection. It's not exactly expensive. I still can't imagine that they cover it with petty steam sales. Their lobbies are not very active at all.

2011 seems like the last time anyone has really hard anything from NovaLogic. I wonder if it will be the last. The F-22 update gives a little hope, but not for anything substantial like Angel Falls. The community is dying, less and less going on every day. Most of the community websites like this one barley see a few dozen posts a year.

We'll probably never know what happened with the gameloft project...

I find it really sad because there is (IMO) nothing out there like these games. I wish a company would just buy the project and start work again.

You think they still have military contracts left to honor? For some reason, I thought their military contracts were more marketing than anything else - a few special missions for training in the late 90s on DF/Voxel tech and nothing more. I figured F-22 L3 (my first online game!) was too arcadey to be remotely useful for the military. I could never get over how smooth F-22 L3 was online... I had a 28.8 kbps connection and had lag free dogfights!

Has anyone tried giving their offices a call or reaching out to them on LinkedIn? I almost did the latter the other day.

I used to mod for BHD and JO and got in contact with loa (Terranova EXP developer) a couple of years ago to discuss making a new game in the spirit of Delta Force. I agree with you - there's nothing like the DF games out there. Unfortunately, I simply don't have the time necessary to make a game. I can create maps, textures, and was learning how to model, but mapping was my forte. I made some very popular BHD maps back in the day.

I am amazed at how far along game development has come in the last decade. If it becomes exponentially easier to model and animate, then maybe there'd be hope for me to make a game... Until then, I can't do programming, animating, net code, user interface, etc. and I don't have the time to coordinate a team to do so, either.

It's nice to have someone to talk reminisce about these games. I am so glad this site is still running. I think I made an account here back in 2003/2004, but I can't remember what email I used.

Edit: For maximum Novalogic nostalgia, here are some screenshots I have of JO and BHD reskins I made. Nothing too impressive - mostly just making the color palette for the DF troops in BHD more realistic and providing realistic camouflage to the JO soldiers. My computer wasn't very good, so the graphics only ran on medium. I eventually moved onto CS:S and reskinned cs_office - definitely my proudest reskin.

Ha, I always like to reminisce about these games. They are honestly what brought me to the computer in the first place. I still think about my first online game in DF2 way back in the late 90's. I was a winter map, between two large hills. I was killed constantly buy better players but it was just amazing. I honestly had no idea I was playing other people from around the world when I clicked the "play on novaworld" button. I thought it was impossible, but I was simply hooked. From there I migrated quickly to DFLW. For some stupid reason this game is why I own a company now. I learned how to build a website for this game, and it spawned into a career of IT and building websites. That was so many years ago now. I don't "personally" know many of the old folks because I am an introvert at heart, but I know their names as I've followed this community since the late 90's.

As for your questions, I have no idea about the military contracts. Maybe it's like you say: myths. But for some reason there is a patch for F-22 in 2015. That's just odd. I'm also amazed about the game modding these days, apparently some of the old guys involved with the "reality mod" and NovaLogic in general are involved in a new project called "Squad" (http://joinsquad.com/). I have no proof or any sources but it's been linked on a few other websites. Seems like an interesting game but who knows, I still want DF:AF.

Those are some beautiful skins btw. Nice job. I hear CS:Go is quite popular these days...

Thanks for your compliments on the skins! That means a lot to me. :run: I learned how to skin because of Novalogic games - couldn't afford to buy a new game when I was in middle school, but since I had the time, I was able to learn how to make a game! Almost went into game development, but it's apparently hell to be in that industry (sweatshop hours and constant turnover) so I passed on it. Haven't really messed with modding since 2008.

That's awesome to hear how the game affected your life so positively. I received some practical skills from playing them, too, but nowhere near your level. I can type over 100 words per minute now... I had to learn how to type quickly in dogfights in F-22 L3! I also learned how to manage people by managing a clan in BHD, a skill I use to this day at a start up.

It's funny, I remember my first online game experience, too... I thought the words on the screen ("ur connection sux") were transcribed poorly because of a bad connection from the user's mic! I was only 9 at the time, so I didn't know any better. It was almost a month before I realized I could press "T" to talk with everyone - it seemed to good to be true!

My second online experience was with DF2. Now that was truly addicting. I remember details about my first multiplayer game in it to this day, just like you.

Might reach out to someone on LinkedIn in the coming days - I figured since you had a Nova fansite you would've done that by now!

Funny to hear about your early experience "ur connection sux". Mine were so very similar. Especially when I was the noob that started killing people that eventually turned into the "Panther is a cheater"... Those days will live on forever, I wish I remembered all of them better. I wish I was more into BHD at the time and when JO was released but I was so busy with school and what not, time was not very available to play like I did in DF2/LW. Now I have time to spare and no games to play because there are none like those. So I play on Xbox and mostly Single Player.. The COD and BF series just did nothing for me...

Let us know if you find out anything if you start trying to contact people via LinkedIn. As a NovaLogic resource site, I've tried but many are reluctant because of the reach this site has and also because many singed NDA's while working with NL. No one wants to chat. I just like any rumors or info.

Also, don't be a stranger. There aren't many posters now days but I for one like info and/or rumors :)

Delta Force was the first game i ever played online on a 14k modem, still it was many times less laggy then some games/servers now with 100/100 fiber, feels like the net code didn't evolve as fast as games did!

Will definitely let you know once I reach out to them! Any recommendations on who to reach out to in particular? Have you ever spoken with any of them? I was reading the reddit post of a disgruntled former employee the other day and am not super optimistic about hearing back...

Happy Saturday night, too bad we aren't logging on to play Mean Streets A with ten thousand other rabid BHD fans. (Did you guys play the demo when it was called City Limits?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hjwISxnfqY

:D https://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-garcia/4/398/595

don't think we were ever very successful at getting much info from NL, we had a contact way back.


pretty sure loa was first person i ever actually spoke to from the internets :gj: think it was via roger wilco. hope he's doing good :gj:

There are also some people of interest on the side bar (see attached photo). Most of them have very limited profiles or have left NL. :dontknow:

We had contact with the "Chad McNeill" way back in like 2005. You can see the interview with him here: http://novahq.net/pages.php?CategoryID=Interviews&ID=76

I understand why most are disappointed with the f22 patch, but I see it as a sign that someone is doing something there. If that is not the case, then who knows, maybe some f22 fanatic hacked into the website and posted it.

:fingersx:

Yeah, they were always struggled at community managing, to put it nicely. I remember the moderator they used to have on Novaworld back around the time of JO's launch. The community manager was relatively friendly, but could barely say anything about the game or upcoming patches because of his NDA. :huh: It's a totally different ballgame managing communities these days. Look at the CTE in BF games as an example... they are not only transparent with what new features they're working on - they have the community testing them out.

Spoke with loa a year or two ago, he was modding away at Call of Duty games and making a lot of maps. He's a stand up guy. Sounded like he'd spoken with a few of the employees there, maybe we can get him over here and hear his experiences. He had some interesting stories when I spoke with him. Did you guys ever see the Urban Assault mod he made for JO? He still peeks at the Terranova EXP forums if you guys ever go over there.

It makes me hopeful - not so much for a new game right now, but that Novalogic won't go out of business. Maybe a few years from now... maybe... I think they'll just port their existing games to iOS. If they had proper marketing and community management, their games could be CoD killers due to their user friendly map editor. There are tons of ways to monetize that, especially if they'd embrace mods.

Scott - thanks for the tip. May not get a chance to properly reach out to them until next week...

PS, did anyone see this?

http://novacommand.com/?p=1643#comments

Yes, that is very old... That was posted way back in 2011 even though that was posted on the 12th of July on that website.

FYI, the other day I did try calling the public number. I tried almost all the options but all wanted me to leave a message which I didn't do. :ohnoes:

haha

that's pretty funny :kekekegay Good on you for trying. I was going to reach out on LinkedIn but the only way to contact them is by sending a request to connect, which I don't really want to do - thought I could just send them a message. So, I went looking for the CEO's email and I can't find anything. Wondering if it's jgarcia@novalogic or maybe johngarcia@novalogic. May just give both a shot. Do either of you guys know what the naming structure of their email is?

Also, Scott, your screenshot got me wondering... if we tried to organize a day for BHD gaming, how many people could we get to show up? I really only use Macs these days, but I still have my 10 year old PC with Windows XP on it... I could set up the maps. Would need at least a few weeks to get fully prepared, though. I don't own DF2 but would consider shelling out $10 for it if that's all we could get people to play, too (long as it's not DFX2... yuck).

chad mcneil was cmcneill@novalogic.com so could be jgarcia@novalogic.com or jagarcia@novalogic.com

came across these 2, they were marketing/pr, assume they are not at NL any more though, but could have a contact https://twitter.com/georginaverdon https://twitter.com/AnnoyedGamer

https://twitter.com/NovaLogicInc

i dont use twitter btw


did find this on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co..._to_novalogic/ an ex memeber of staff posted but it doesnt provide much useful info, it mentions that Kyle (freeman) might still be around but he left to work at disney a while back. shame as he would know how to make df2 run at a decent resolution :D

Got his email - sent him one. Fingers crossed!

I saw that reddit thread, too - it's actually what made me come over here and post! I may reach out to that user, too, to see if he knows anyone still working there.

Steve, I meant to ask you in addition to Scott... would you also be interested in a day of throwback DF gaming?

I wouldn't mind a few games.. I do have access to a number of servers that could host them. I'd like DF2 more than BHD but either would work really.

cools, do all these work on steam?

Yes they do

Why not do both DF2 and BHD on different days? I wonder how many people we could get together... Have you guys tried organizing a big day before? I figure if we did it as two separate events, we could get higher turnouts. If we could get 16 people, we could have some very full maps.

I bet BHD probably still has some players (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's DF2 that would need more organization. I suggest hitting up other DF fan sites and Novaworld (which has become a cesspool... but all we need are bodies). I'm excited!! :bigthumb:

I have my PC in storage, so I'd need to get it out and extract some BHD maps for us... Maybe on a Saturday? I can't do this weekend, though.

No response from John Garcia. I doubt I'll ever hear back. I imagine that no email = no game in development. I'm very confused as to why they never published that iOS Commanche game that was in development.

Edit- I'm assuming that no one plays DF2 and that we'd need to set a time for people to log on to play, but I now see that there's a FB group where you guys ping one another when you are playing? Is it easy to get games going?

i'm sure there must be a lot of DF groups on Steam but i recently joined this group after i saw Stompem join up: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DeltaForceLives , quite a few active members, they seem to use https://www.evolvehq.com/welcome for joining games. i think the biggest battle is getting ppl in the same place at the same time, too many different ways of connecting these days :D

I vote we organize a DF2 night. I can play most weekend nights, and I have at least 4 DF2 contacts that still play the game regularly.

Sounds like a plan then... I will get my 11 year old PC out of storage this weekend and buy DF2. Hope Windows XP SP2 can run the latest version of Steam!

Bullet, if you have four friends and all four of us show up, it'd be a solid eight people. Not sure how many people we could get if we made an event on Steam/Facebook.

Do people still play BHD regularly? Would it take as much organization to get a game going, or could we pretty easily get one with 16 people?

There are plenty of folks still playing BHD. A few servers are packed regularly.

That's great news. Is the game overrun with cheaters? Cheaters were one of the reasons I stopped playing the game... it was hard to tell if someone was cheating if they were "good" at it. :disappoint:

I'm not sure. I haven't noticed any in the servers I play in.

It's funny to read how NovaLogic games spawned careers for other people too. I doubt I would have become a programmer if not for the countless hours I spent making tools and mods for the DF games.

I've thought a few times about creating a central hub for the older Delta Force games that is solely devoted to instructions for getting the games running and playing online. Others have attempted to do the same and failed, so there's not a lot of motivation behind the idea. The influx in social media platforms may help this time around, but I'm just not sure.

I still play LW every so often. Dont get online much but have much fun with ArcticWolfs maps with the adjusted AI...

It has crossed my mind to see if Garcia would be interested in selling the source code for DF2 or LW to release it open source, but suspect I couldn't afford what he would ask :/

someone was talking about that many years ago for DF2, unfortunately i forget names, was really cool the ideas kicking around, there was some advanced modding of the game but only to a point where they needed help from NL which was not forthcoming. wish i could remember that guys name...

So this is kind of funny, but I actually considered going into game design because of all of the modding I did. I ultimately decided against it after reading about the sweatshop hours and constant turnover. I wrote a post over here to stompem talking about making a game from scratch in the spirit of Delta Force. I didn't realize we had so many modders here! Maybe there is hope...

That would be really cool. From what I've read, there are just too many pingers, and they all yield different lobby results (please correct me if I am not understanding). It would make sense to have a consolidated pinger, and I imagine it would increase the number of players across all games. For instance, instead of firing up a DF, DF2, and DFLW pinger, you just open one up when you are bored and notice there's a game going in DF and you join it. Right now, people probably aren't bothered to open up all three pingers. It could be really good for the DF community.

Now that is an interesting proposition... if you could get him to respond to your email! Still no response on mine, probably because they have no games in development.

What would you do with the engine if you had it? It may be hard to get modern day gamers to jump onto it because of the dated graphics, so I'd be leery about investing any money into it.

I can't imagine they'd ever have a use for it again. It would make sense to try to profit off of it any way since it's so outdated, even if it just meant taking a percentage of your gross if you ever made any money with it.

I can't imagine I'd license their Commanche/BHD/JO engine... I didn't do any coding on it, but I heard they coded themselves into a corner on it to the point it would be impossible to add a sprint button.

I wonder, though, if a graphically overhauled BHD would sell? Almost no other changes made aside from graphics... would it do well? There is no shortage of ways to monetize it - you could let the community make all of the maps so people play the game for years, then you encourage modding and sell reskins, remodels, etc. that have purely aesthetic changes to gameplay. Or, you could occasionally release an "official" map pack with 4 maps in it for a low price, or just charge for an expansion pack. I was dumbfounded at Novalogic's utter failure in monetizing their games. I am not a fan of microtransactions nickel and diming me, but I'll gladly pay for new, good content.

I would fall over and die with happiness if the source code for DF/DF2/LW/TFD was released. I'd buy the engine and tools needed if they were still available.

There used to be a rumor that NovaLogic had actually lost the source code for some of the older games. I wonder if that's true.

F22L3Comments@novalogic.com

Has anyone tried that email? Maybe there's a slight chance they would check that one since it's regarding the June update.