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  #1  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:00 PM
Oscarmike247 is offline Oscarmike247
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JO: Revision

A clip from an old mod of mine I dug up. I called it the Joint Ops Revision project. It mainly focused on gameplay and weapons. I got too busy to do anything with it, now I'm not sure if I ever will... Here's the AK47.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kExLPnOF6uA
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:16 AM
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Nice mod, sad it never made it to release
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:04 AM
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Nice mod, sad it never made it to release
I still may try to do something with it. I know there arent many players on JO any more but its a lot of fun in singleplayer and coop.

I have done so much work to it though, i just wish i had more time to work on it.

In the mod i have completely overhauled the weapons and ballistics.

Ballistics all have exact velocity, weight and ballistic coefficient values (drag) as the real ammo.

Weapons all have correct weight and MOA accuracy as the real rifles. The moa accuracy is set to the guns moa when prone and increases by a percentage as the player goes to crouch and standing, which is 25% and 50% of guns original accuracy capabilities to simulate human error.

Every gun now has stability sway when sighted in (much like scoped rifles). The amount of sway is based off of a percentage of the guns weight and is effected by stance. The heavier the weapon, the more sway you will have when sighted. All weapons have basically no sway when prone.

Recoil has been changed for every gun. The amount of recoil muzzle climb is actually calculated based off of the weapon weight, bullet weight, and the powder charge of the cartridge. This was used to calculate the free energy muzzle climb of the real gun which was translated into felt recoil by the shooter. The recoil in game is less than the real free energy muzzle climb because i took into account the shooters ability to control the weapon.

This means that heaveir guns firing a bullet of the same weight or lighter has less recoil than a gun that is lighter. Ex, the SAW is more controlable than the M4. They both fire the same cartridge, but because the saw is heavier there is less recoil due to inertial factors.


Thats just a fraction of the change log so far... other changes involve cosmetics and sound. I tried to use the sound system in the game to create some cool effects for gun fire.

If you listen in the video, youll hear an audible distant echo for every AK47 round fired echoed in exactly the same pattern the player fires. It sounds pretty realistic and cool on machinegun fire.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
In the mod i have completely overhauled the weapons and ballistics.
Why?
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by stompem View Post
Why?
Because there was a lot of things novalogic just got wrong.

Its a great ballisic system that nova has, but they wasted it trying to create a hollywood style shooter.

I would like to use the mod to convert jo into more of a simulator.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscarmike247 View Post
Because there was a lot of things novalogic just got wrong.
Fair enough opinion but I would say Nova didn't get it wrong at all.

They understood the ballistics entirely.

It's dealing with limitations again.

The game world view simply isn't as acute as the real world.

You can play Arma, BF or COD etc for that sort of simulation but look at the PC computing power required and also the poor server performance of some.

Realistic projectile speeds and the corresponding extended flight time probably adds unnecessary overhead. Makes tracer paths look flatter, might even cause detection errors?

Anyway calculations and ballistic paths were deliberately truncated and shortened to make it more playable on the hardware of the day.

This is in a 3D world where graphic objects disappear quit quickly mind you.

For instance the game world wraps and I think it's about 24 k in diameter, max LOD's are about 400 m and sky height is generally only a few hundred m above sea level etc.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post
Fair enough opinion but I would say Nova didn't get it wrong at all.

They understood the ballistics entirely.

It's dealing with limitations again.

The game world view simply isn't as acute as the real world.

You can play Arma, BF or COD etc for that sort of simulation but look at the PC computing power required and also the poor server performance of some.

Realistic projectile speeds and the corresponding extended flight time probably adds unnecessary overhead. Makes tracer paths look flatter, might even cause detection errors?

Anyway calculations and ballistic paths were deliberately truncated and shortened to make it more playable on the hardware of the day.

This is in a 3D world where graphic objects disappear quit quickly mind you.

For instance the game world wraps and I think it's about 24 k in diameter, max LOD's are about 400 m and sky height is generally only a few hundred m above sea level etc.
You're thinking about it too much. I don't think the projectile velocities would effect the handling of the game. The weapon rate of fire could affect this perhaps. Playing online with guns with higher fire rates would cause some issues I would think.

Nova's velocities were not off by that much (ok some were by quite a bit), but what I am mainly adjusting is the bullet weight and drag coefficient. this simply affects bullet drop, ballistic characteristics, and damages at certain ranges. And Yes there were several weapons in the game that nova completely flopped on, and it had nothing to do with game performance. I'd guess that they just didn't give a crap.

Quote:
You can play Arma, BF or COD etc for that sort of simulation but look at the PC computing power required and also the poor server performance of some.
Arma: Yes BF: sort of COD: LOL

COD does not have a very realistic ballistics engine. I stopped playing after MW3 because it was trash. But as far as a know the game doesn't even have bullet drop. And regarding server performance, BF has some of the best netcode and hit detection on the market. Especially BF1. You hop on joint ops or today, even with better hardware and even with a server getting only 30 ping or so, and you still have to aim 20 feet in front of moving targets and get shot around corners all the time. None of that has anything to do with bullet velocities, just bad netcode.

Did Novalogic actually get their ballistics engine right? YES YES and YES. It's actually spot on... Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBfKmEC9X0A

In this video Jerry Miculek shoots a steel target 200 yards away with a Kriss Vector firing 45 ACP 230gr ammo. He aimed 8 feet above the target in order to hit it. Great shot btw.

As it turns out, I have a Kriss Vector in my mod whose ammo I have set to the same specifications of the real 45 ACP 230gr cartridge. same velocity, weight and drag coefficient values.

I decided to check it out in game. I set up a torso sized target at 200 yds (182.88 meters) and set a marker 8 feet (2.43 meters) above the target. Aiming precisely at the marker (8 feet above target just as Jerry did) lands a bulls-eye.

I think it is very interesting to play the game knowing that the capabilities of the gun you are using is very close to the real weapon. Nova's ballistic system is spot on and versatile. It's one thing they got right, they just didn't set the values right.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about with 3D LOD limits. They may not be rendered but they still exist in the game. and a projectile is going to hit its target and register damage in the game regardless of how far away the shooter is or if the shooter can see the target.

Last edited by Oscarmike247; 02-16-2018 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:50 PM
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I think leaving out total reality is what makes it what it is so I wouldn't waste my time personally.
Just to show I'm not against Mods - Here's a mod worth playing - see if you can guess which one it is...



https://youtu.be/J91_LJ50yO4

Last edited by Guest001; 02-16-2018 at 01:53 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:13 PM
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Let me clearly state this is my opinion not the actual situation - many PPL would love to try your Mod.

I'm not against Mods but just fiddling with ballistics isn't it for me, there are some good Mods around, the Mods I like add to the game, not just modify existing.

A Mod I haven't seen yet is where projectile impacts and tracers ricochet with effects...

Command and control.

In game editing.

In this Arma 3 video I take out a Jet in mid air with a few leading shots from a rifle.
The bullets arc.



https://youtu.be/GR-6qybKOYs

Last edited by Guest001; 02-16-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2018, 02:08 PM
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No Mods

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  #11  
Old 02-16-2018, 06:35 PM
Oscarmike247 is offline Oscarmike247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post
No Mods

Lol that's awesome, I did something like that a long time ago in an experimental map in DFX. I had the water color red trying to simulate lava. if you fell in it would kill the player with a 3d area trigger. the lava looked less than impressive though. it needed more of a glow to it that just can't be done with water color alone. I never released the map.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post
I think leaving out total reality is what makes it what it is so I wouldn't waste my time personally.
Just to show I'm not against Mods - Here's a mod worth playing - see if you can guess which one it is...



https://youtu.be/J91_LJ50yO4
I understand. it will never be completely realistic. but Novalogic guns are just bad. they don't feel like guns. Heck most of them don't even look like they are pointing in the right direction in 1st person view.

I goal was to make the weapons feel and sound more like weapons and have more realistic and dynamic mechanics to them. In my mod, you have to play with a gun that is suited to your environment more than you had before. I think its more interesting when you have to pick your gear based on their capabilities and what job you need them for. instead of before where you just grab an M4 carbine and it's just as good as pretty much anything.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2018, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
weapons feel and sound more like weapons
You don't have to reiterate Oscarmike247 I know what you're saying - I'm just saying in my opinion the simulation level is fine as it is.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post
You don't have to reiterate Oscarmike247 I know what you're saying - I'm just saying in my opinion the simulation level is fine as it is.
I feel you stomp. What, if anything, besides weapons do you think could be differentbetter about the game?
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  #15  
Old 02-18-2018, 05:48 AM
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As I've briefly mentioned - introducing new attributes to the game would be interesting.

Projectile impacts and tracered ricochets with full collision effects...

IE if you're hit by ricochet there is damage which makes for interesting play when the enemy are behind cover.

More Command and Control of the AI Teams would open up more mapping possibilities.

Create objectives, change weapon load-outs, add pickups whilst in-game would extend game-play enormously.


EDIT:
Last but not least - scale up the engine and raise the number of objects you can have in a map.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:15 AM
Oscarmike247 is offline Oscarmike247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stompem View Post


As I've briefly mentioned - introducing new attributes to the game would be interesting.

Projectile impacts and tracered ricochets with full collision effects...

IE if you're hit by ricochet there is damage which makes for interesting play when the enemy are behind cover.

More Command and Control of the AI Teams would open up more mapping possibilities.

Create objectives, change weapon load-outs, add pickups whilst in-game would extend game-play enormously.


EDIT:
Last but not least - scale up the engine and raise the number of objects you can have in a map.

I'd tried some of the things you mentioned with no success. AI are impossible. Unless you had a way to make .AIN files for each map like Nova did in BHD, AI navigation and general intelligence will remain equivalent to a zombie.

I experimented with ricochets a long time ago. I concluded that it can't be done to my knowledge. What I tried to do was use something similar to what the claymore for a shrapnel effect in the game. When you set off a claymore, the game emits a spray of shrapnel bits in the direction of the clay that causes damage. You can control the number of shrapnel bits and damage amount that you want the game to emit through the AMMO.DEF file.

My attempt was to tell the game to emit only one shrapnel bit from the impact of a bullet. For some reason, it won't work in game. However, even if it did, it would not be a true ricochet. the "ricocheted" bullet would be emitted in a random direction rather than a direction based on angle of impact. Also, every single impact would ricochet, which would not be realistic. You would have bullets bouncing off of soft woods and probably even cloth. and never mind getting them with tracers.

Unfortunately, due to game engine limitations or limitations of modding resources, things like this can only be done to a small extent or not done at all.
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  #17  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:38 AM
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JOBotz - Dynamic AI Bots for Joint Operations


Teamate Commands tutorial by EE
Attached Files
File Type: zip EE_Teamate_Commands.zip (2.6 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by Guest001; 02-18-2018 at 07:02 AM.
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